[nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?

Jim jp100 at earthlink.net
Sun Jul 18 18:26:17 UTC 2010


Well, with that, it doesn't matter if you confuse sugar and salt.  Either of
them would be fine.
Where's the humor there, huh?


-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Freeman
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:48 AM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?

Ain't it funny how it messes up coffee but is just dandy for a marguerita?

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?


> Pay attention and don't put salt in your coffee this morning, Mike.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:20 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>
> Delicioso!
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>
>
>> Yeah.  Come on.  Who hasn't put orange juice instead of milk in their
>> cereal?  Everyone has done it, and we just learn to live with and laugh
>> about it.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Dewey Bradley
>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:32 AM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>
>> this is funny because we have all done something like that, even sighted
>> people do stuff like that.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 12:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>
>>
>>> Ray,
>>>
>>> I don't think this fits the pattern that you and Mike were discussing.
>>> In
>>
>>> this case, nobody is making fun of you, you made
>>> a mistake and you needed to handle it in the way you felt made the most
>>> sense.  I would submit that by laughing about it
>>> a little, you probably helped yourself, and you probably gained an
>>> opportunity to let the attendant know why it happened
>>> and that you really do have a system to tell them apart.  I would feel
>>> less positive, though, if someone who didn't know
>>> that this doesn't usually happen made a comedy skit out of this without
>>> any explanation such as what you likely could
>>> have provided.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:20:09 -0500, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
>>>
>>>>Mike,
>>>
>>>>You might be pleasantly surprised to find that you and I agree on this
>>>>matter more than you might at first suppose.  The
>>> issues you bring up are points that are well taken.  IN fact, I'll add 
>>> to
>>> your points by giving yet another example.
>>> Remember "Good and Evil"?  I do.  did I think that show was funny?  Hell
>>> no!!!  I thought it was exactly the worst thing
>>> to come along in years.  IN fact, I'd say it was way worse even than the
>>> commercial you sighted in your message.  Still,
>>> while your points are well taken, I maintian that I still have a fairly
>>> good case.  For example, let's say I am in a hurry to get
>>> to the laundry mat and in my haste, I grab a box of Pancake mix rather
>>> than detergent.  Yes, that actually happened to
>>> me.  I put the powder in to the machine and put my clothes in.  The
>>> attendant came over and then said to me, "Uh,
>>> excuse me sir; uh, do you know you put Pancake mix in your clothes?".
>>> You
>>
>>> can imagine how embarrassed I was.
>>> Now, let's look at that episode.  ON the one hand, one hand, one could
>>> argue the point that this incident would make
>>> the attendant think that blind people cannot tell between laundry
>>> detergent and pancake mix.  He might, therefore, have
>>> a view of blindness that is colored by that happening.  Therefore, by
>>> allowing that bit of carelessness to occurr, one
>>> could say that i betrayed the cause and set us bakc many years.  At this
>>> point, some might perhaps call me a trator to
>>> the movement because of this.  In my first days in the outfit, I too
>>> might
>>
>>> have said as much.  On the other hand, one
>>> could argue that the story is funny for its own sake.  The laundry mat
>>> attendant could easily have his view of blindness
>>> corrected by others, (many others) who would not make that mistake.  So,
>>> let me stop here and ask one simple question.
>>> What says the list to that?
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>>>E-Mail:
>>>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>Skype Name:
>>>>barefootedray
>>>
>>>>On Jul 16, 2010, at 10:43 PM, Mike Freeman wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Ray:
>>>>>
>>>>> In any discussion such as this, it's damnably dangerous to generalize
>>>>> because almost universally, there are
>>> exceptions to any rule. But with respect to humor regarding aspects of
>>> blindness, I think we must ask ourselves *why*
>>> we (or our sighted coleagues) find any particular blindness-related
>>> incident funny. Let me give you an example.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many years ago, I remember a commercial for a particular optical
>>>>> company
>>
>>>>> touting the need to wear good glasses
>>> (this was before lasic) by using a skit whereby a mom's kids on a 
>>> camping
>>> trip with her stole her glasses and laughed
>>> themselves silly when she got up in the morning over how ridiculous she
>>> looked stumbling about and doing awkward
>>> things because she couldn't see.
>>>>>
>>>>> That commercial burned my posterior because it was pure cruelty for 
>>>>> the
>>>>> kids to laugh about something the mom
>>> couldn't help because she wasn't trained as a blind person and had I 
>>> been
>>> her, I'd have tanned their hides. This sort of
>>> thing is the reason I find almost all slapstick comedy unappealing. It's
>>> basically cruelty in another guise. And if (as in Mr.
>>> Magoo) it gives the impression that all vision-impaired persons are like
>>> that, it sets us back immeasurably.
>>>>>
>>>>> But something like forgetting to turn a coffee cup over when getting 
>>>>> it
>>>>> out of the cupboard and absent-mindedly
>>> pouring coffee all over the counter as a result -- that's just plain
>>> funny
>>
>>> because I knew better and had my head in the
>>> clouds rather than paying attention to what I was doing as I should 
>>> have.
>>>>>
>>>>> You see what I'm driving at? Do we laugh over our blindness because
>>>>> it's
>>
>>>>> funny or because we are laughing at what
>>> we take to be our misfortune.
>>>>>
>>>>> What we in NFB bridle at our two assumptions: (a) that others
>>>>> (including
>>
>>>>> ourselves) assume that we need help when
>>> we may not and (b) that we may falsely assume that we can't do something
>>> so elect not to try. Every one of us (including
>>> those of us who are sighted) use help when we need it and/or when it's
>>> convenient for us and others. Where this gets
>>> us into trouble is when we ask for help so often that people don't think
>>> we can do without it.
>>>>>
>>>>> But basically, it all comes down to how we view ourselves mediated by
>>>>> our view of blindness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr"
>>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:33 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, well, you see John, here's the thing.  As I see it, I don't think
>>>>>> that the NFB philosophy is looking to diminish
>>> blindness itself; rather, as I understand it, the NFB is trying to make
>>> blindness itself a mere nucence according to the
>>> perceptions of both the sighted and blind alike.  We tend to see
>>> ourselves
>>
>>> as others see us.  That includes the blind as
>>> well.  It's a fact of human nature that when you've got a cause to 
>>> fight,
>>> and the need for help from others seems to fly in
>>> the face of any forward movement in that cause, there tends to be at
>>> least
>>
>>> a little personal or professional
>>> embarrassment at the idea of needing help; especially when that need for
>>> help and the taking of it, (how ever badly
>>> needed) would even appear to set back the cause for which one is
>>> fighting.
>>
>>> I note the most recent issue of "The Braille
>>> Monitor" for July 2010.  The "Ask Mrs. Whsoit column is particularly
>>> worth
>>
>>> paying attention to.  Why?  Because in that
>>> column, one of the letter writers indicate
>>>>>> d that they got the impression that the independent blind in the NFB
>>>>>> always would brag about how they could
>>> always find their way through airports and never needed help; and
>>> therefore, that one was not a true federationist if one
>>> either needed or accepted help regardless of how much that help was
>>> actually needed.  Barbara Pierce, in her answer,
>>> indicated that she wondered whether she and the letter writer were
>>> reading
>>
>>> the same issues of "The Braille Monitor".
>>> Here, I think the letter writer could have made a stronger case by
>>> actually sighting issue and articles.  If the truth of the
>>> matter be known, I too was once under the same impression as the letter
>>> writer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, I'll give you another.  The subject of laughter.  Once, on this
>>>>>> list, I made an attempt to explore this issue in
>>> depth but it didn't go very far.  I sighted what I believed at the time
>>> to
>>
>>> be inconsistencies in what some leaders in the
>>> federation were saying and human reality.  It's human to laugh at things
>>> which are truly funny; even things blindness
>>> related. Some among the federation leadership, (barbara Pierce for
>>> example) said things which I took to be the attitude
>>> that it was not acceptable for a blind person to laugh at anything
>>> blindness related; even if it was genuinely funny.  But
>>> this philosophy, if you live and breathe it literally, tends to deny
>>> human
>>
>>> reality.  What say y'all?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm just trying to poke at a few points here to see what we can go
>>>>>> with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 10:51 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah! Actually, you bring up an exciting possibility that never 
>>>>>>> occured
>>>>>>> to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I can't honestly say that I've been arguing that the NFB
>>>>>>> philosophy should be modified. The trouble is that I've
>>> always believed that an advocacy group cannot be effective when its own
>>> philosophy is that the problem it is organized
>>> around is fairly minor. Why bother working for change when blindness is 
>>> a
>>> mere nuiscance anyway?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're probably saying, "That's not waht the NFB philosophy means."
>>>>>>> And I think it should be clear that I know
>>> that especially after my dissertation about how similar  the NFB
>>> philosophy is to Lombardi's. The problem, as I see it, is
>>> that it is impossible to avoid having the philosophy to morph into
>>> something that blames the victim.  It inevitably will lead
>>> to a situation where its a sin to ask for an accomodation, any
>>> accomodation.  The only solution I see is to get rid of the
>>> philosophy all together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, that's the only solution I saw until now. Actually, I'm really
>>>>>>> excited about the idea you bring up. Can the
>>> philosophy be tweaked to address the problems I have seen? I'll admit 
>>> I'm
>>> very skeptical. But it sure is worth some
>>> thought and/or discussion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually, I'd consider it a major victory if someone, anyone, would
>>>>>>> acknowledge the problem itself. How can the
>>> NFB be effective as an advocacy group when its own philosophy is that
>>> with
>>
>>> proper training, blindness can be reduced
>>> to a mere nuiscance? If I were President of the NFB (scary thought, I
>>> know), I could go on for days about how those 2
>>> ideas are not really contradictory. But as a practical matter, I just do
>>> not think they can work together. And you've got to
>>> admit that on the surface, they seem quite at odds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr"
>>>>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:34 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Okay John,  So, let me see if I understand you correctly.  What 
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> of us have viewed as your attacks on the
>>> NFB philosophy are actually not attacks at all; rather, they are 
>>> attempts
>>> on your part to help the NFB fulfill and perhaps
>>> even improve on its  philosophy?  I want you to understand that I do not
>>> intend my question as an attack upon you; but,
>>> instead, I truly want to see if this is where you are going.  Because, 
>>> if
>>> so, I think we may have the beginnings of a rather
>>> forward thinking discussion about a substantive way of moving forward
>>> that
>>
>>> if we advance it to the leadership of the
>>> NFB in exactly the right way, we might perhaps gain ground not otherwise
>>> obtainable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 9:02 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm impressed with the number of swimmers on this list. Its a good
>>>>>>>>> sign, IMO. It says something about the NFB
>>> philosophy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I may have given the impression that I disapprove of the NFB
>>>>>>>>> philosophy but nothing could be further from the
>>> truth. Its very close to my personal philosophy of life which is 
>>> borrowed
>>> from Vince Lombardi.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A lot of people think Vince Lombardi was the mean old coach who
>>>>>>>>> would do anything to win. No, that was not
>>> what he was like at all. His players loved him and still gather to meet
>>> each year to honor him. What he believed was that
>>> life's greatest moments come when you meet a challenge and over come it.
>>> That's what life is about. That is what it is to
>>> be human.  You've got to have the will to win, to be the best you can 
>>> be.
>>> Strive for perfection, knowing you'll never
>>> obtain it but on the way there, you'll find three things. First, you'll
>>> do
>>
>>> more than you ever thought you could. Second,
>>> you'll find the struggle itself can be fun. And third, , when you do
>>> succeed, it will be the greatest feeling you've ever had.
>>> So when I went blind, I decided I was going to be the best damn blind 
>>> guy
>>> I could be. I learned braille, tried to learn to
>>> play the violin, got a guide dog, and got back into running and 
>>> swimming.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The beauty of Lombardi's philosophy is that whenever you run into
>>>>>>>>> adversity, you don't say, "Oh, woe is me. Life
>>> is so hard."  Instead the response is , "Well, what are you going to do
>>> about it?" You don't seek out adversity but when
>>> it comes, embrace it. Take it on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not to create controversy again but like the NFB philosophy, the
>>>>>>>>> problem with Vince Lombardi's philosophy is
>>> that it is easily morphed into a mentality of showing contempt for
>>> losers.
>>
>>> You can't live Lombardi's philosophy and be
>>> satisfied -- well ever really since perfection is impossible to obtain.
>>> You can always get better. But not everybody has the
>>> same strengths and not everyone can win.  And no one has any right to
>>> tell
>>
>>> anyone else how to live their lives.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> anyway, I think you can see the simularity between Lombardi's
>>>>>>>>> philosophy of life and the NFB philosophy. I
>>> would say, though, that Lombardi's philosophy is a step beyond that of
>>> the
>>
>>> NFB in that it gives you a sort of method for
>>> carrying it out. The idea of never settling for anything short of 
>>> success
>>> is implied in the NFB philosophy but not spelled
>>> out. I think Lombardi's take on the NFB philosophy would have been that
>>> the most important thing in life for a blind
>>> person is striving to reduce blindness to a mere nuisance.  You may 
>>> never
>>> get there but the most important thing is to
>>> never be satisfied until it is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Johnson"
>>>>>>>>> <stevencjohnson at centurytel.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 7:10 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think it is just cool that you are swimming.  I think the best 
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> would at
>>>>>>>>>> my skill level is circles!  Good for you in wanting to be a
>>>>>>>>>> tri-athelete!
>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:25 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you swim laps and if you have a way to stay on your side of 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> lane, I'd
>>>>>>>>>> like to hear about it.  I believe most lap pools have the 
>>>>>>>>>> swimmers
>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>> right like on a road. You swim up the right side of the lane and
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>
>>>>>>>>>> the way
>>>>>>>>>> back you come down the other side. The best I've been able to do
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>
>>>>>>>>>> to swim
>>>>>>>>>> with my right arm flailing out so that i can touch the lane
>>>>>>>>>> divider
>>
>>>>>>>>>> on every
>>>>>>>>>> stroke.  That doesn't really work very well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It isn't really very helpful to tell me my skills need to 
>>>>>>>>>> improve.
>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>> all, I already asked for tips on how to improve.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:14 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A lane for yourself alone?  Why?  Is it your swimming skills 
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> vastly need improvement; or, perhaps your blindness skills?
>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 2010, at 9:04 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So you're a swimmer, huh?  Do you ever have to share a lane? If
>>>>>>>>>>>> so,
>>>>>>>>>>>> how do you do it? I have never managed to do that successfully.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here
>>>>>>>>>>>> at the pool at the University of Wisconsin, I call ahead and
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>>>>>>> a lane aside for me so I can have it to myself. Its only a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> minor
>>>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice because there are usually several lanes with only one
>>>>>>>>>>>> person in them. So when they reserve a lane for me, it only
>>>>>>>>>>>> means
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>> other person has to share a lane.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever done any open water swimming? I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>> enter
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> triathlon but I don't like swimming tethered to someone else. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> can't get comfortable doing that. It effects my breathing and I
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> can't swim normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wm. Ritchhart"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 5:04 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the new digital talking book player.  I do wish
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still smaller and lighter.  With all my swimming gear, lunch,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> back-up cane and everything else I have in my gym bag; it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>>>>>> too heavy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Steve Johnson
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:22 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> John, I have not tried one myself yet, so this is good to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 3:26 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man, I just got one of those new digital book players from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> National Library Service.  You might wonder why a computer 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nerd
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself took so long to ask for one of those things. Well, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mostly the reason is that I have 2 tape players that I bought
>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself
>>>>>>>>>>>>> plus the one from NLS. So now I have to use the player from 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NLS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of the time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But holy cow, is this thing nice. I downloaded a book and put
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a USB thumb drive and was listening to a book amybe 3 minutes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting started. And navigation within the book is very nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your tax dollars at work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
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