[nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?

Mike Freeman k7uij at panix.com
Sun Jul 18 19:19:59 UTC 2010


The more margueritas one embibes, the funnier everything becomes! (har)

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?


> Well, with that, it doesn't matter if you confuse sugar and salt.  Either 
> of
> them would be fine.
> Where's the humor there, huh?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:48 AM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>
> Ain't it funny how it messes up coffee but is just dandy for a marguerita?
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 9:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>
>
>> Pay attention and don't put salt in your coffee this morning, Mike.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:20 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>
>> Delicioso!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>
>>
>>> Yeah.  Come on.  Who hasn't put orange juice instead of milk in their
>>> cereal?  Everyone has done it, and we just learn to live with and laugh
>>> about it.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Dewey Bradley
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:32 AM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>
>>> this is funny because we have all done something like that, even sighted
>>> people do stuff like that.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 12:32 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ray,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think this fits the pattern that you and Mike were discussing.
>>>> In
>>>
>>>> this case, nobody is making fun of you, you made
>>>> a mistake and you needed to handle it in the way you felt made the most
>>>> sense.  I would submit that by laughing about it
>>>> a little, you probably helped yourself, and you probably gained an
>>>> opportunity to let the attendant know why it happened
>>>> and that you really do have a system to tell them apart.  I would feel
>>>> less positive, though, if someone who didn't know
>>>> that this doesn't usually happen made a comedy skit out of this without
>>>> any explanation such as what you likely could
>>>> have provided.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:20:09 -0500, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Mike,
>>>>
>>>>>You might be pleasantly surprised to find that you and I agree on this
>>>>>matter more than you might at first suppose.  The
>>>> issues you bring up are points that are well taken.  IN fact, I'll add
>>>> to
>>>> your points by giving yet another example.
>>>> Remember "Good and Evil"?  I do.  did I think that show was funny? 
>>>> Hell
>>>> no!!!  I thought it was exactly the worst thing
>>>> to come along in years.  IN fact, I'd say it was way worse even than 
>>>> the
>>>> commercial you sighted in your message.  Still,
>>>> while your points are well taken, I maintian that I still have a fairly
>>>> good case.  For example, let's say I am in a hurry to get
>>>> to the laundry mat and in my haste, I grab a box of Pancake mix rather
>>>> than detergent.  Yes, that actually happened to
>>>> me.  I put the powder in to the machine and put my clothes in.  The
>>>> attendant came over and then said to me, "Uh,
>>>> excuse me sir; uh, do you know you put Pancake mix in your clothes?".
>>>> You
>>>
>>>> can imagine how embarrassed I was.
>>>> Now, let's look at that episode.  ON the one hand, one hand, one could
>>>> argue the point that this incident would make
>>>> the attendant think that blind people cannot tell between laundry
>>>> detergent and pancake mix.  He might, therefore, have
>>>> a view of blindness that is colored by that happening.  Therefore, by
>>>> allowing that bit of carelessness to occurr, one
>>>> could say that i betrayed the cause and set us bakc many years.  At 
>>>> this
>>>> point, some might perhaps call me a trator to
>>>> the movement because of this.  In my first days in the outfit, I too
>>>> might
>>>
>>>> have said as much.  On the other hand, one
>>>> could argue that the story is funny for its own sake.  The laundry mat
>>>> attendant could easily have his view of blindness
>>>> corrected by others, (many others) who would not make that mistake. 
>>>> So,
>>>> let me stop here and ask one simple question.
>>>> What says the list to that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>
>>>>>E-Mail:
>>>>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>Skype Name:
>>>>>barefootedray
>>>>
>>>>>On Jul 16, 2010, at 10:43 PM, Mike Freeman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Ray:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In any discussion such as this, it's damnably dangerous to generalize
>>>>>> because almost universally, there are
>>>> exceptions to any rule. But with respect to humor regarding aspects of
>>>> blindness, I think we must ask ourselves *why*
>>>> we (or our sighted coleagues) find any particular blindness-related
>>>> incident funny. Let me give you an example.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many years ago, I remember a commercial for a particular optical
>>>>>> company
>>>
>>>>>> touting the need to wear good glasses
>>>> (this was before lasic) by using a skit whereby a mom's kids on a
>>>> camping
>>>> trip with her stole her glasses and laughed
>>>> themselves silly when she got up in the morning over how ridiculous she
>>>> looked stumbling about and doing awkward
>>>> things because she couldn't see.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That commercial burned my posterior because it was pure cruelty for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> kids to laugh about something the mom
>>>> couldn't help because she wasn't trained as a blind person and had I
>>>> been
>>>> her, I'd have tanned their hides. This sort of
>>>> thing is the reason I find almost all slapstick comedy unappealing. 
>>>> It's
>>>> basically cruelty in another guise. And if (as in Mr.
>>>> Magoo) it gives the impression that all vision-impaired persons are 
>>>> like
>>>> that, it sets us back immeasurably.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But something like forgetting to turn a coffee cup over when getting
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> out of the cupboard and absent-mindedly
>>>> pouring coffee all over the counter as a result -- that's just plain
>>>> funny
>>>
>>>> because I knew better and had my head in the
>>>> clouds rather than paying attention to what I was doing as I should
>>>> have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You see what I'm driving at? Do we laugh over our blindness because
>>>>>> it's
>>>
>>>>>> funny or because we are laughing at what
>>>> we take to be our misfortune.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What we in NFB bridle at our two assumptions: (a) that others
>>>>>> (including
>>>
>>>>>> ourselves) assume that we need help when
>>>> we may not and (b) that we may falsely assume that we can't do 
>>>> something
>>>> so elect not to try. Every one of us (including
>>>> those of us who are sighted) use help when we need it and/or when it's
>>>> convenient for us and others. Where this gets
>>>> us into trouble is when we ask for help so often that people don't 
>>>> think
>>>> we can do without it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But basically, it all comes down to how we view ourselves mediated by
>>>>>> our view of blindness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr"
>>>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:33 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah, well, you see John, here's the thing.  As I see it, I don't 
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> that the NFB philosophy is looking to diminish
>>>> blindness itself; rather, as I understand it, the NFB is trying to make
>>>> blindness itself a mere nucence according to the
>>>> perceptions of both the sighted and blind alike.  We tend to see
>>>> ourselves
>>>
>>>> as others see us.  That includes the blind as
>>>> well.  It's a fact of human nature that when you've got a cause to
>>>> fight,
>>>> and the need for help from others seems to fly in
>>>> the face of any forward movement in that cause, there tends to be at
>>>> least
>>>
>>>> a little personal or professional
>>>> embarrassment at the idea of needing help; especially when that need 
>>>> for
>>>> help and the taking of it, (how ever badly
>>>> needed) would even appear to set back the cause for which one is
>>>> fighting.
>>>
>>>> I note the most recent issue of "The Braille
>>>> Monitor" for July 2010.  The "Ask Mrs. Whsoit column is particularly
>>>> worth
>>>
>>>> paying attention to.  Why?  Because in that
>>>> column, one of the letter writers indicate
>>>>>>> d that they got the impression that the independent blind in the NFB
>>>>>>> always would brag about how they could
>>>> always find their way through airports and never needed help; and
>>>> therefore, that one was not a true federationist if one
>>>> either needed or accepted help regardless of how much that help was
>>>> actually needed.  Barbara Pierce, in her answer,
>>>> indicated that she wondered whether she and the letter writer were
>>>> reading
>>>
>>>> the same issues of "The Braille Monitor".
>>>> Here, I think the letter writer could have made a stronger case by
>>>> actually sighting issue and articles.  If the truth of the
>>>> matter be known, I too was once under the same impression as the letter
>>>> writer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, I'll give you another.  The subject of laughter.  Once, on this
>>>>>>> list, I made an attempt to explore this issue in
>>>> depth but it didn't go very far.  I sighted what I believed at the time
>>>> to
>>>
>>>> be inconsistencies in what some leaders in the
>>>> federation were saying and human reality.  It's human to laugh at 
>>>> things
>>>> which are truly funny; even things blindness
>>>> related. Some among the federation leadership, (barbara Pierce for
>>>> example) said things which I took to be the attitude
>>>> that it was not acceptable for a blind person to laugh at anything
>>>> blindness related; even if it was genuinely funny.  But
>>>> this philosophy, if you live and breathe it literally, tends to deny
>>>> human
>>>
>>>> reality.  What say y'all?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm just trying to poke at a few points here to see what we can go
>>>>>>> with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 10:51 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ah! Actually, you bring up an exciting possibility that never
>>>>>>>> occured
>>>>>>>> to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, I can't honestly say that I've been arguing that the NFB
>>>>>>>> philosophy should be modified. The trouble is that I've
>>>> always believed that an advocacy group cannot be effective when its own
>>>> philosophy is that the problem it is organized
>>>> around is fairly minor. Why bother working for change when blindness is
>>>> a
>>>> mere nuiscance anyway?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You're probably saying, "That's not waht the NFB philosophy means."
>>>>>>>> And I think it should be clear that I know
>>>> that especially after my dissertation about how similar  the NFB
>>>> philosophy is to Lombardi's. The problem, as I see it, is
>>>> that it is impossible to avoid having the philosophy to morph into
>>>> something that blames the victim.  It inevitably will lead
>>>> to a situation where its a sin to ask for an accomodation, any
>>>> accomodation.  The only solution I see is to get rid of the
>>>> philosophy all together.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, that's the only solution I saw until now. Actually, I'm 
>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>> excited about the idea you bring up. Can the
>>>> philosophy be tweaked to address the problems I have seen? I'll admit
>>>> I'm
>>>> very skeptical. But it sure is worth some
>>>> thought and/or discussion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually, I'd consider it a major victory if someone, anyone, would
>>>>>>>> acknowledge the problem itself. How can the
>>>> NFB be effective as an advocacy group when its own philosophy is that
>>>> with
>>>
>>>> proper training, blindness can be reduced
>>>> to a mere nuiscance? If I were President of the NFB (scary thought, I
>>>> know), I could go on for days about how those 2
>>>> ideas are not really contradictory. But as a practical matter, I just 
>>>> do
>>>> not think they can work together. And you've got to
>>>> admit that on the surface, they seem quite at odds.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr"
>>>>>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:34 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Okay John,  So, let me see if I understand you correctly.  What
>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>> of us have viewed as your attacks on the
>>>> NFB philosophy are actually not attacks at all; rather, they are
>>>> attempts
>>>> on your part to help the NFB fulfill and perhaps
>>>> even improve on its  philosophy?  I want you to understand that I do 
>>>> not
>>>> intend my question as an attack upon you; but,
>>>> instead, I truly want to see if this is where you are going.  Because,
>>>> if
>>>> so, I think we may have the beginnings of a rather
>>>> forward thinking discussion about a substantive way of moving forward
>>>> that
>>>
>>>> if we advance it to the leadership of the
>>>> NFB in exactly the right way, we might perhaps gain ground not 
>>>> otherwise
>>>> obtainable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 9:02 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm impressed with the number of swimmers on this list. Its a 
>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>> sign, IMO. It says something about the NFB
>>>> philosophy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I may have given the impression that I disapprove of the NFB
>>>>>>>>>> philosophy but nothing could be further from the
>>>> truth. Its very close to my personal philosophy of life which is
>>>> borrowed
>>>> from Vince Lombardi.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A lot of people think Vince Lombardi was the mean old coach who
>>>>>>>>>> would do anything to win. No, that was not
>>>> what he was like at all. His players loved him and still gather to meet
>>>> each year to honor him. What he believed was that
>>>> life's greatest moments come when you meet a challenge and over come 
>>>> it.
>>>> That's what life is about. That is what it is to
>>>> be human.  You've got to have the will to win, to be the best you can
>>>> be.
>>>> Strive for perfection, knowing you'll never
>>>> obtain it but on the way there, you'll find three things. First, you'll
>>>> do
>>>
>>>> more than you ever thought you could. Second,
>>>> you'll find the struggle itself can be fun. And third, , when you do
>>>> succeed, it will be the greatest feeling you've ever had.
>>>> So when I went blind, I decided I was going to be the best damn blind
>>>> guy
>>>> I could be. I learned braille, tried to learn to
>>>> play the violin, got a guide dog, and got back into running and
>>>> swimming.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The beauty of Lombardi's philosophy is that whenever you run into
>>>>>>>>>> adversity, you don't say, "Oh, woe is me. Life
>>>> is so hard."  Instead the response is , "Well, what are you going to do
>>>> about it?" You don't seek out adversity but when
>>>> it comes, embrace it. Take it on.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not to create controversy again but like the NFB philosophy, the
>>>>>>>>>> problem with Vince Lombardi's philosophy is
>>>> that it is easily morphed into a mentality of showing contempt for
>>>> losers.
>>>
>>>> You can't live Lombardi's philosophy and be
>>>> satisfied -- well ever really since perfection is impossible to obtain.
>>>> You can always get better. But not everybody has the
>>>> same strengths and not everyone can win.  And no one has any right to
>>>> tell
>>>
>>>> anyone else how to live their lives.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> anyway, I think you can see the simularity between Lombardi's
>>>>>>>>>> philosophy of life and the NFB philosophy. I
>>>> would say, though, that Lombardi's philosophy is a step beyond that of
>>>> the
>>>
>>>> NFB in that it gives you a sort of method for
>>>> carrying it out. The idea of never settling for anything short of
>>>> success
>>>> is implied in the NFB philosophy but not spelled
>>>> out. I think Lombardi's take on the NFB philosophy would have been that
>>>> the most important thing in life for a blind
>>>> person is striving to reduce blindness to a mere nuisance.  You may
>>>> never
>>>> get there but the most important thing is to
>>>> never be satisfied until it is.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Johnson"
>>>>>>>>>> <stevencjohnson at centurytel.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 7:10 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think it is just cool that you are swimming.  I think the best
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> would at
>>>>>>>>>>> my skill level is circles!  Good for you in wanting to be a
>>>>>>>>>>> tri-athelete!
>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:25 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you swim laps and if you have a way to stay on your side of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> lane, I'd
>>>>>>>>>>> like to hear about it.  I believe most lap pools have the
>>>>>>>>>>> swimmers
>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>> right like on a road. You swim up the right side of the lane and
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the way
>>>>>>>>>>> back you come down the other side. The best I've been able to do
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to swim
>>>>>>>>>>> with my right arm flailing out so that i can touch the lane
>>>>>>>>>>> divider
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> on every
>>>>>>>>>>> stroke.  That doesn't really work very well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't really very helpful to tell me my skills need to
>>>>>>>>>>> improve.
>>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>> all, I already asked for tips on how to improve.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:14 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A lane for yourself alone?  Why?  Is it your swimming skills
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> vastly need improvement; or, perhaps your blindness skills?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 2010, at 9:04 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So you're a swimmer, huh?  Do you ever have to share a lane? 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how do you do it? I have never managed to do that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the pool at the University of Wisconsin, I call ahead and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a lane aside for me so I can have it to myself. Its only a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> minor
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice because there are usually several lanes with only 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> person in them. So when they reserve a lane for me, it only
>>>>>>>>>>>>> means
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other person has to share a lane.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever done any open water swimming? I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> triathlon but I don't like swimming tethered to someone else. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't get comfortable doing that. It effects my breathing and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't swim normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wm. Ritchhart"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 5:04 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the new digital talking book player.  I do wish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still smaller and lighter.  With all my swimming gear, lunch,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back-up cane and everything else I have in my gym bag; it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too heavy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Steve Johnson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:22 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John, I have not tried one myself yet, so this is good to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 3:26 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man, I just got one of those new digital book players from 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> National Library Service.  You might wonder why a computer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nerd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself took so long to ask for one of those things. Well, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mostly the reason is that I have 2 tape players that I bought
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plus the one from NLS. So now I have to use the player from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NLS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of the time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But holy cow, is this thing nice. I downloaded a book and put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a USB thumb drive and was listening to a book amybe 3 minutes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting started. And navigation within the book is very nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your tax dollars at work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
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