[nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?

[ckrugman at sbcglobal.net]

As far as disabilities go it is probably much easier to adapt to being 
blind. Blind people unless they have difficulty walking or a mobility 
impairment can still climb steps to access buildings and can get audio cues 
to their surroundings. There are many people out there who do not know how 
to communicate with a deaf person and do not enunciate clearly when they 
speak making it more difficult for deaf people who read lips. Blind people 
are able to process what they hear or read which is difficult for people 
with learning or perceptual disabilities. Yes, being blind at times can be 
an inconvenience but it is not insurmountable. Of course, when telling this 
to sighted people or those who are going blind there is the emotional and 
loss factors they need to be taken in to account. These were some of the 
examples that I used when speaking to groups in the past or when I did 
counseling. Having had friends and worked with clients in all disability 
groups I dealt with these issues firsthand and much of this was prior to ADA 
and other legislation.
chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]" <Terry.Powers at nih.gov>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 4:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?


>I do not know about that!  I have said many a time, I would rather be blind 
>than deaf.  I do not know where I would be with out the world of sound and 
>music.  Also the sence of tutch is a beautiful thing.
>
> Terry Powers
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim [mailto:jp100 at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 1:12 AM
> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>
> And yet, nothing beats vision, huh??
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 8:10 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>
> I've seen a guide dog bark at her image in a mirror!
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>
>
>>I don't know Mike.  That's pretty funny.
>> Of course, I still don't think it beat the time my two friends and I were
>> walking together at an Austin mall.  One of my friends, the one with "the
>> most vision" told us to slow down or stop so as not to run into the other
>> blind people coming toward us.  I asked what other blind people because I
>> didn't hear any canes or anything.  As hard as he tried avoiding them, we
>> couldn't.  We walked a bit, and all of a sudden, he ran into something.
>> He
>> realized what had happened.  He was looking at some sort of mirror or at
>> least at our reflections and thought there were three other blind folks
>> coming our way.
>> He couldn't help but bust a gut and ended up on the floor laughing
>> hysterically.  I'm sure passers-by wondered what the heck was happening
>> there.  I'm sure the blind folks were noticed after he began laughing
>> without control.
>> JP
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:30 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>
>> Yeah; it took her a minute to figure out why I was laughing and then she
>> sat
>>
>> down on the curb and howled with mirth.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 2:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>
>>
>>> Mike, bet the lady chuckled, too.
>>>
>>> Margo and Arrow
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 2:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>
>>>
>>>>I once knew a lady who was unfamiliar with my neighborhood and who said
>>>>hello to every lamp post for a block because she wasn't used to them
>>>>being
>>
>>>>so close to the sidewalk! In truth, it *was* funny!
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mike Bullis" <mabullis at hotmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 8:21 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Not knowing what it was, I hit a bush with my cane the other day as I
>>>>> was
>>>>> walking quickly by and said excuse me.  I thought it was funny.
>>>>> Although I
>>>>> know that many disagree with me about this, I simply find lots of
>>>>> things
>>>>> funny that are politically incorrect or self deprecating.  Humor,
>>>>> perhaps
>>>>> sadly, but truly, is very much about the put down.
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 11:44 PM
>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ray:
>>>>>
>>>>> In any discussion such as this, it's damnably dangerous to generalize
>>>>> because almost universally, there are exceptions to any rule. But with
>>>>> respect to humor regarding aspects of blindness, I think we must ask
>>>>> ourselves *why* we (or our sighted coleagues) find any particular
>>>>> blindness-related incident funny. Let me give you an example.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many years ago, I remember a commercial for a particular optical
>>>>> company
>>>>> touting the need to wear good glasses (this was before lasic) by using
>>>>> a
>>>>> skit whereby a mom's kids on a camping trip with her stole her glasses
>>>>> and
>>>>> laughed themselves silly when she got up in the morning over how
>>>>> ridiculous
>>>>> she looked stumbling about and doing awkward things because she
>>>>> couldn't
>>>>> see.
>>>>>
>>>>> That commercial burned my posterior because it was pure cruelty for 
>>>>> the
>>>>> kids
>>>>>
>>>>> to laugh about something the mom couldn't help because she wasn't
>>>>> trained as
>>>>>
>>>>> a blind person and had I been her, I'd have tanned their hides. This
>>>>> sort of
>>>>>
>>>>> thing is the reason I find almost all slapstick comedy unappealing.
>>>>> It's
>>>>> basically cruelty in another guise. And if (as in Mr. Magoo) it gives
>>>>> the
>>>>> impression that all vision-impaired persons are like that, it sets us
>>>>> back
>>>>> immeasurably.
>>>>>
>>>>> But something like forgetting to turn a coffee cup over when getting 
>>>>> it
>>>>> out
>>>>> of the cupboard and absent-mindedly pouring coffee all over the 
>>>>> counter
>>>>> as a
>>>>>
>>>>> result -- that's just plain funny because I knew better and had my 
>>>>> head
>>>>> in
>>>>> the clouds rather than paying attention to what I was doing as I 
>>>>> should
>>>>> have.
>>>>>
>>>>> You see what I'm driving at? Do we laugh over our blindness because
>>>>> it's
>>>>> funny or because we are laughing at what we take to be our misfortune.
>>>>>
>>>>> What we in NFB bridle at our two assumptions: (a) that others
>>>>> (including
>>>>> ourselves) assume that we need help when we may not and (b) that we 
>>>>> may
>>>>> falsely assume that we can't do something so elect not to try. Every
>>>>> one
>>
>>>>> of
>>>>> us (including those of us who are sighted) use help when we need it
>>>>> and/or
>>>>> when it's convenient for us and others. Where this gets us into 
>>>>> trouble
>>>>> is
>>>>> when we ask for help so often that people don't think we can do 
>>>>> without
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> But basically, it all comes down to how we view ourselves mediated by
>>>>> our
>>>>> view of blindness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:33 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, well, you see John, here's the thing.  As I see it, I don't think
>>>>>> that
>>>>>
>>>>>> the NFB philosophy is looking to diminish blindness itself; rather, 
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> understand it, the NFB is trying to make blindness itself a mere
>>>>>> nucence
>>>>>> according to the perceptions of both the sighted and blind alike.  We
>>>>>> tend
>>>>>
>>>>>> to see ourselves as others see us.  That includes the blind as well.
>>>>>> It's
>>>>>
>>>>>> a fact of human nature that when you've got a cause to fight, and the
>>>>>> need
>>>>>
>>>>>> for help from others seems to fly in the face of any forward movement
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> that cause, there tends to be at least a little personal or
>>>>>> professional
>>>>>> embarrassment at the idea of needing help; especially when that need
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> help and the taking of it, (how ever badly needed) would even appear
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> set back the cause for which one is fighting.  I note the most recent
>>>>>> issue of "The Braille Monitor" for July 2010.  The "Ask Mrs. Whsoit
>>>>>> column
>>>>>
>>>>>> is particularly worth paying attention to.  Why?  Because in that
>>>>>> column,
>>>>>> one of the letter writers indicate
>>>>>> d that they got the impression that the independent blind in the NFB
>>>>>> always would brag about how they could always find their way through
>>>>>> airports and never needed help; and therefore, that one was not a 
>>>>>> true
>>>>>> federationist if one either needed or accepted help regardless of how
>>>>>> much
>>>>>
>>>>>> that help was actually needed.  Barbara Pierce, in her answer,
>>>>>> indicated
>>>>>> that she wondered whether she and the letter writer were reading the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> issues of "The Braille Monitor".  Here, I think the letter writer
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> have made a stronger case by actually sighting issue and articles. 
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> truth of the matter be known, I too was once under the same 
>>>>>> impression
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> the letter writer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, I'll give you another.  The subject of laughter.  Once, on this
>>>>>> list,
>>>>>
>>>>>> I made an attempt to explore this issue in depth but it didn't go 
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> far.  I sighted what I believed at the time to be inconsistencies in
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> some leaders in the federation were saying and human reality.  It's
>>>>>> human
>>>>>> to laugh at things which are truly funny; even things blindness
>>>>>> related.
>>>>>> Some among the federation leadership, (barbara Pierce for example)
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> things which I took to be the attitude that it was not acceptable for
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> blind person to laugh at anything blindness related; even if it was
>>>>>> genuinely funny.  But this philosophy, if you live and breathe it
>>>>>> literally, tends to deny human reality.  What say y'all?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm just trying to poke at a few points here to see what we can go
>>>>>> with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 10:51 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah! Actually, you bring up an exciting possibility that never 
>>>>>>> occured
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I can't honestly say that I've been arguing that the NFB
>>>>>>> philosophy
>>>>>>> should be modified. The trouble is that I've always believed that an
>>>>>>> advocacy group cannot be effective when its own philosophy is that
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> problem it is organized around is fairly minor. Why bother working
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> change when blindness is a mere nuiscance anyway?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're probably saying, "That's not waht the NFB philosophy means."
>>>>>>> And I
>>>>>
>>>>>>> think it should be clear that I know that especially after my
>>>>>>> dissertation about how similar  the NFB philosophy is to Lombardi's.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> problem, as I see it, is that it is impossible to avoid having the
>>>>>>> philosophy to morph into something that blames the victim.  It
>>>>>>> inevitably
>>>>>
>>>>>>> will lead to a situation where its a sin to ask for an accomodation,
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> accomodation.  The only solution I see is to get rid of the
>>>>>>> philosophy
>>>>>>> all together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, that's the only solution I saw until now. Actually, I'm really
>>>>>>> excited about the idea you bring up. Can the philosophy be tweaked 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> address the problems I have seen? I'll admit I'm very skeptical. But
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> sure is worth some thought and/or discussion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually, I'd consider it a major victory if someone, anyone, would
>>>>>>> acknowledge the problem itself. How can the NFB be effective as an
>>>>>>> advocacy group when its own philosophy is that with proper training,
>>>>>>> blindness can be reduced to a mere nuiscance? If I were President of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> NFB (scary thought, I know), I could go on for days about how those 
>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>> ideas are not really contradictory. But as a practical matter, I 
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> not think they can work together. And you've got to admit that on 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> surface, they seem quite at odds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr"
>>>>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:34 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Okay John,  So, let me see if I understand you correctly.  What 
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> us have viewed as your attacks on the NFB philosophy are actually
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> attacks at all; rather, they are attempts on your part to help the
>>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>>> fulfill and perhaps even improve on its  philosophy?  I want you to
>>>>>>>> understand that I do not intend my question as an attack upon you;
>>>>>>>> but,
>>>>>>>> instead, I truly want to see if this is where you are going.
>>>>>>>> Because,
>>>>>>>> if so, I think we may have the beginnings of a rather forward
>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>> discussion about a substantive way of moving forward that if we
>>>>>>>> advance
>>>>>>>> it to the leadership of the NFB in exactly the right way, we might
>>>>>>>> perhaps gain ground not otherwise obtainable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 9:02 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm impressed with the number of swimmers on this list. Its a good
>>>>>>>>> sign, IMO. It says something about the NFB philosophy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I may have given the impression that I disapprove of the NFB
>>>>>>>>> philosophy
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> but nothing could be further from the truth. Its very close to my
>>>>>>>>> personal philosophy of life which is borrowed from Vince Lombardi.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A lot of people think Vince Lombardi was the mean old coach who
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> do anything to win. No, that was not what he was like at all. His
>>>>>>>>> players loved him and still gather to meet each year to honor him.
>>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> he believed was that life's greatest moments come when you meet a
>>>>>>>>> challenge and over come it. That's what life is about. That is 
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> is to be human.  You've got to have the will to win, to be the 
>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> can be. Strive for perfection, knowing you'll never obtain it but
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the way there, you'll find three things. First, you'll do more 
>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ever thought you could. Second, you'll find the struggle itself 
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> fun. And third, , when you do succeed, it will be the greatest
>>>>>>>>> feeling
>>>>>>>>> you've ever had. So when I went blind, I decided I was going to be
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> best damn blind guy I could be. I learned braille, tried to learn
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> play the violin, got a guide dog, and got back into running and
>>>>>>>>> swimming.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The beauty of Lombardi's philosophy is that whenever you run into
>>>>>>>>> adversity, you don't say, "Oh, woe is me. Life is so hard."
>>>>>>>>> Instead
>>>>>>>>> the response is , "Well, what are you going to do about it?" You
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> seek out adversity but when it comes, embrace it. Take it on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not to create controversy again but like the NFB philosophy, the
>>>>>>>>> problem with Vince Lombardi's philosophy is that it is easily
>>>>>>>>> morphed
>>>>>>>>> into a mentality of showing contempt for losers. You can't live
>>>>>>>>> Lombardi's philosophy and be satisfied -- well ever really since
>>>>>>>>> perfection is impossible to obtain. You can always get better. But
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> everybody has the same strengths and not everyone can win.  And no
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>> has any right to tell anyone else how to live their lives.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> anyway, I think you can see the simularity between Lombardi's
>>>>>>>>> philosophy of life and the NFB philosophy. I would say, though,
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> Lombardi's philosophy is a step beyond that of the NFB in that it
>>>>>>>>> gives
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you a sort of method for carrying it out. The idea of never
>>>>>>>>> settling
>>>>>>>>> for anything short of success is implied in the NFB philosophy but
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> spelled out. I think Lombardi's take on the NFB philosophy would
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> been that the most important thing in life for a blind person is
>>>>>>>>> striving to reduce blindness to a mere nuisance.  You may never 
>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> there but the most important thing is to never be satisfied until
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Johnson"
>>>>>>>>> <stevencjohnson at centurytel.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 7:10 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think it is just cool that you are swimming.  I think the best 
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> would at
>>>>>>>>>> my skill level is circles!  Good for you in wanting to be a
>>>>>>>>>> tri-athelete!
>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:25 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you swim laps and if you have a way to stay on your side of 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> lane, I'd
>>>>>>>>>> like to hear about it.  I believe most lap pools have the 
>>>>>>>>>> swimmers
>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>> right like on a road. You swim up the right side of the lane and
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> the way
>>>>>>>>>> back you come down the other side. The best I've been able to do
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> swim
>>>>>>>>>> with my right arm flailing out so that i can touch the lane
>>>>>>>>>> divider
>>
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>>>> stroke.  That doesn't really work very well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It isn't really very helpful to tell me my skills need to 
>>>>>>>>>> improve.
>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>> all, I already asked for tips on how to improve.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:14 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A lane for yourself alone?  Why?  Is it your swimming skills 
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> vastly need improvement; or, perhaps your blindness skills?
>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 2010, at 9:04 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So you're a swimmer, huh?  Do you ever have to share a lane? If
>>>>>>>>>>>> so,
>>>>>>>>>>>> how do you do it? I have never managed to do that successfully.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here
>>>>>>>>>>>> at the pool at the University of Wisconsin, I call ahead and
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>>>>>>> a lane aside for me so I can have it to myself. Its only a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> minor
>>>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice because there are usually several lanes with only one
>>>>>>>>>>>> person in them. So when they reserve a lane for me, it only
>>>>>>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>> other person has to share a lane.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever done any open water swimming? I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>> enter
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> triathlon but I don't like swimming tethered to someone else. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> can't get comfortable doing that. It effects my breathing and I
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> can't swim normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wm. Ritchhart"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 5:04 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the new digital talking book player.  I do wish
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still smaller and lighter.  With all my swimming gear, lunch,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> back-up cane and everything else I have in my gym bag; it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>>>>>> too heavy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Steve Johnson
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:22 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> John, I have not tried one myself yet, so this is good to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 3:26 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man, I just got one of those new digital book players from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> National Library Service.  You might wonder why a computer 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nerd
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself took so long to ask for one of those things. Well, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mostly the reason is that I have 2 tape players that I bought
>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself
>>>>>>>>>>>>> plus the one from NLS. So now I have to use the player from 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NLS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of the time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But holy cow, is this thing nice. I downloaded a book and put
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a USB thumb drive and was listening to a book amybe 3 minutes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting started. And navigation within the book is very nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your tax dollars at work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org