[nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?

Wed Jul 21 17:42:54 UTC 2010

I sure agree with you!  I fit in the group of multi handicapped.  I have a sight problem, epelepsi, a mild hearing problem and back problems. I have to use an amplifier on my phone and can not walk for long distances, but have been working for the federal government for 25 years.  I also use speech and braille on my computer.  Short term memory has hindered my advancement in the computer field.  My theory is, where there is a will, there is a way.

Terry Powers from MD

-----Original Message-----
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net [mailto:ckrugman at sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 10:56 AM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?

As far as disabilities go it is probably much easier to adapt to being blind. Blind people unless they have difficulty walking or a mobility impairment can still climb steps to access buildings and can get audio cues to their surroundings. There are many people out there who do not know how to communicate with a deaf person and do not enunciate clearly when they speak making it more difficult for deaf people who read lips. Blind people are able to process what they hear or read which is difficult for people with learning or perceptual disabilities. Yes, being blind at times can be an inconvenience but it is not insurmountable. Of course, when telling this to sighted people or those who are going blind there is the emotional and loss factors they need to be taken in to account. These were some of the examples that I used when speaking to groups in the past or when I did counseling. Having had friends and worked with clients in all disability groups I dealt with these issues firsthand and much of this was prior to ADA and other legislation.
chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]" <Terry.Powers at nih.gov>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 4:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?

>I do not know about that!  I have said many a time, I would rather be
>blind than deaf.  I do not know where I would be with out the world of
>sound and music.  Also the sence of tutch is a beautiful thing.
>
> Terry Powers
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim [mailto:jp100 at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 1:12 AM
> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>
> And yet, nothing beats vision, huh??
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 8:10 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>
> I've seen a guide dog bark at her image in a mirror!
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>
>
>>I don't know Mike.  That's pretty funny.
>> Of course, I still don't think it beat the time my two friends and I
>>were  walking together at an Austin mall.  One of my friends, the one
>>with "the  most vision" told us to slow down or stop so as not to run
>>into the other  blind people coming toward us.  I asked what other
>>blind people because I  didn't hear any canes or anything.  As hard as
>>he tried avoiding them, we  couldn't.  We walked a bit, and all of a sudden, he ran into something.
>> He
>> realized what had happened.  He was looking at some sort of mirror or
>>at  least at our reflections and thought there were three other blind
>>folks  coming our way.
>> He couldn't help but bust a gut and ended up on the floor laughing
>>hysterically.  I'm sure passers-by wondered what the heck was
>>happening  there.  I'm sure the blind folks were noticed after he
>>began laughing  without control.
>> JP
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:30 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>
>> Yeah; it took her a minute to figure out why I was laughing and then
>> she sat
>>
>> down on the curb and howled with mirth.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 2:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>
>>
>>> Mike, bet the lady chuckled, too.
>>>
>>> Margo and Arrow
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 2:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>
>>>
>>>>I once knew a lady who was unfamiliar with my neighborhood and who
>>>>said hello to every lamp post for a block because she wasn't used to
>>>>them being
>>
>>>>so close to the sidewalk! In truth, it *was* funny!
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mike Bullis" <mabullis at hotmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 8:21 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Not knowing what it was, I hit a bush with my cane the other day
>>>>> as I was walking quickly by and said excuse me.  I thought it was
>>>>> funny.
>>>>> Although I
>>>>> know that many disagree with me about this, I simply find lots of
>>>>> things funny that are politically incorrect or self deprecating.
>>>>> Humor, perhaps sadly, but truly, is very much about the put down.
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 11:44 PM
>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ray:
>>>>>
>>>>> In any discussion such as this, it's damnably dangerous to
>>>>> generalize because almost universally, there are exceptions to any
>>>>> rule. But with respect to humor regarding aspects of blindness, I
>>>>> think we must ask ourselves *why* we (or our sighted coleagues)
>>>>> find any particular blindness-related incident funny. Let me give you an example.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many years ago, I remember a commercial for a particular optical
>>>>> company touting the need to wear good glasses (this was before
>>>>> lasic) by using a skit whereby a mom's kids on a camping trip with
>>>>> her stole her glasses and laughed themselves silly when she got up
>>>>> in the morning over how ridiculous she looked stumbling about and
>>>>> doing awkward things because she couldn't see.
>>>>>
>>>>> That commercial burned my posterior because it was pure cruelty
>>>>> for the kids
>>>>>
>>>>> to laugh about something the mom couldn't help because she wasn't
>>>>> trained as
>>>>>
>>>>> a blind person and had I been her, I'd have tanned their hides.
>>>>> This sort of
>>>>>
>>>>> thing is the reason I find almost all slapstick comedy unappealing.
>>>>> It's
>>>>> basically cruelty in another guise. And if (as in Mr. Magoo) it
>>>>> gives the impression that all vision-impaired persons are like
>>>>> that, it sets us back immeasurably.
>>>>>
>>>>> But something like forgetting to turn a coffee cup over when
>>>>> getting it out of the cupboard and absent-mindedly pouring coffee
>>>>> all over the counter as a
>>>>>
>>>>> result -- that's just plain funny because I knew better and had my
>>>>> head in the clouds rather than paying attention to what I was
>>>>> doing as I should have.
>>>>>
>>>>> You see what I'm driving at? Do we laugh over our blindness
>>>>> because it's funny or because we are laughing at what we take to
>>>>> be our misfortune.
>>>>>
>>>>> What we in NFB bridle at our two assumptions: (a) that others
>>>>> (including
>>>>> ourselves) assume that we need help when we may not and (b) that
>>>>> we may falsely assume that we can't do something so elect not to
>>>>> try. Every one
>>
>>>>> of
>>>>> us (including those of us who are sighted) use help when we need
>>>>> it and/or when it's convenient for us and others. Where this gets
>>>>> us into trouble is when we ask for help so often that people don't
>>>>> think we can do without it.
>>>>>
>>>>> But basically, it all comes down to how we view ourselves mediated
>>>>> by our view of blindness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:33 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, well, you see John, here's the thing.  As I see it, I don't
>>>>>> think that
>>>>>
>>>>>> the NFB philosophy is looking to diminish blindness itself;
>>>>>> rather, as I understand it, the NFB is trying to make blindness
>>>>>> itself a mere nucence according to the perceptions of both the
>>>>>> sighted and blind alike.  We tend
>>>>>
>>>>>> to see ourselves as others see us.  That includes the blind as well.
>>>>>> It's
>>>>>
>>>>>> a fact of human nature that when you've got a cause to fight, and
>>>>>> the need
>>>>>
>>>>>> for help from others seems to fly in the face of any forward
>>>>>> movement in that cause, there tends to be at least a little
>>>>>> personal or professional embarrassment at the idea of needing
>>>>>> help; especially when that need for help and the taking of it,
>>>>>> (how ever badly needed) would even appear to set back the cause
>>>>>> for which one is fighting.  I note the most recent issue of "The
>>>>>> Braille Monitor" for July 2010.  The "Ask Mrs. Whsoit column
>>>>>
>>>>>> is particularly worth paying attention to.  Why?  Because in that
>>>>>> column, one of the letter writers indicate d that they got the
>>>>>> impression that the independent blind in the NFB always would
>>>>>> brag about how they could always find their way through airports
>>>>>> and never needed help; and therefore, that one was not a true
>>>>>> federationist if one either needed or accepted help regardless of
>>>>>> how much
>>>>>
>>>>>> that help was actually needed.  Barbara Pierce, in her answer,
>>>>>> indicated that she wondered whether she and the letter writer
>>>>>> were reading the same issues of "The Braille Monitor".  Here, I
>>>>>> think the letter writer could have made a stronger case by
>>>>>> actually sighting issue and articles.
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> truth of the matter be known, I too was once under the same
>>>>>> impression as the letter writer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, I'll give you another.  The subject of laughter.  Once, on
>>>>>> this list,
>>>>>
>>>>>> I made an attempt to explore this issue in depth but it didn't go
>>>>>> very far.  I sighted what I believed at the time to be
>>>>>> inconsistencies in what some leaders in the federation were
>>>>>> saying and human reality.  It's human to laugh at things which
>>>>>> are truly funny; even things blindness related.
>>>>>> Some among the federation leadership, (barbara Pierce for
>>>>>> example) said things which I took to be the attitude that it was
>>>>>> not acceptable for a blind person to laugh at anything blindness
>>>>>> related; even if it was genuinely funny.  But this philosophy, if
>>>>>> you live and breathe it literally, tends to deny human reality.
>>>>>> What say y'all?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm just trying to poke at a few points here to see what we can
>>>>>> go with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 10:51 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah! Actually, you bring up an exciting possibility that never
>>>>>>> occured to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I can't honestly say that I've been arguing that the NFB
>>>>>>> philosophy should be modified. The trouble is that I've always
>>>>>>> believed that an advocacy group cannot be effective when its own
>>>>>>> philosophy is that the problem it is organized around is fairly
>>>>>>> minor. Why bother working for change when blindness is a mere
>>>>>>> nuiscance anyway?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're probably saying, "That's not waht the NFB philosophy means."
>>>>>>> And I
>>>>>
>>>>>>> think it should be clear that I know that especially after my
>>>>>>> dissertation about how similar  the NFB philosophy is to Lombardi's.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> problem, as I see it, is that it is impossible to avoid having
>>>>>>> the philosophy to morph into something that blames the victim.
>>>>>>> It inevitably
>>>>>
>>>>>>> will lead to a situation where its a sin to ask for an
>>>>>>> accomodation, any accomodation.  The only solution I see is to
>>>>>>> get rid of the philosophy all together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, that's the only solution I saw until now. Actually, I'm
>>>>>>> really excited about the idea you bring up. Can the philosophy
>>>>>>> be tweaked to address the problems I have seen? I'll admit I'm
>>>>>>> very skeptical. But it sure is worth some thought and/or
>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually, I'd consider it a major victory if someone, anyone,
>>>>>>> would acknowledge the problem itself. How can the NFB be
>>>>>>> effective as an advocacy group when its own philosophy is that
>>>>>>> with proper training, blindness can be reduced to a mere
>>>>>>> nuiscance? If I were President of the NFB (scary thought, I
>>>>>>> know), I could go on for days about how those
>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>> ideas are not really contradictory. But as a practical matter, I
>>>>>>> just do not think they can work together. And you've got to
>>>>>>> admit that on the surface, they seem quite at odds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr"
>>>>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:34 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Okay John,  So, let me see if I understand you correctly.  What
>>>>>>>> some of us have viewed as your attacks on the NFB philosophy
>>>>>>>> are actually not attacks at all; rather, they are attempts on
>>>>>>>> your part to help the NFB fulfill and perhaps even improve on
>>>>>>>> its  philosophy?  I want you to understand that I do not intend
>>>>>>>> my question as an attack upon you; but, instead, I truly want
>>>>>>>> to see if this is where you are going.
>>>>>>>> Because,
>>>>>>>> if so, I think we may have the beginnings of a rather forward
>>>>>>>> thinking discussion about a substantive way of moving forward
>>>>>>>> that if we advance it to the leadership of the NFB in exactly
>>>>>>>> the right way, we might perhaps gain ground not otherwise
>>>>>>>> obtainable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 9:02 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm impressed with the number of swimmers on this list. Its a
>>>>>>>>> good sign, IMO. It says something about the NFB philosophy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I may have given the impression that I disapprove of the NFB
>>>>>>>>> philosophy
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> but nothing could be further from the truth. Its very close to
>>>>>>>>> my personal philosophy of life which is borrowed from Vince Lombardi.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A lot of people think Vince Lombardi was the mean old coach
>>>>>>>>> who would do anything to win. No, that was not what he was
>>>>>>>>> like at all. His players loved him and still gather to meet
>>>>>>>>> each year to honor him.
>>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> he believed was that life's greatest moments come when you
>>>>>>>>> meet a challenge and over come it. That's what life is about.
>>>>>>>>> That is what it is to be human.  You've got to have the will
>>>>>>>>> to win, to be the best you
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> can be. Strive for perfection, knowing you'll never obtain it
>>>>>>>>> but on the way there, you'll find three things. First, you'll
>>>>>>>>> do more than you
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ever thought you could. Second, you'll find the struggle
>>>>>>>>> itself can be fun. And third, , when you do succeed, it will
>>>>>>>>> be the greatest feeling you've ever had. So when I went blind,
>>>>>>>>> I decided I was going to be the best damn blind guy I could
>>>>>>>>> be. I learned braille, tried to learn to play the violin, got
>>>>>>>>> a guide dog, and got back into running and swimming.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The beauty of Lombardi's philosophy is that whenever you run
>>>>>>>>> into adversity, you don't say, "Oh, woe is me. Life is so hard."
>>>>>>>>> Instead
>>>>>>>>> the response is , "Well, what are you going to do about it?"
>>>>>>>>> You don't seek out adversity but when it comes, embrace it.
>>>>>>>>> Take it on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not to create controversy again but like the NFB philosophy,
>>>>>>>>> the problem with Vince Lombardi's philosophy is that it is
>>>>>>>>> easily morphed into a mentality of showing contempt for
>>>>>>>>> losers. You can't live Lombardi's philosophy and be satisfied
>>>>>>>>> -- well ever really since perfection is impossible to obtain.
>>>>>>>>> You can always get better. But not everybody has the same
>>>>>>>>> strengths and not everyone can win.  And no one has any right
>>>>>>>>> to tell anyone else how to live their lives.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> anyway, I think you can see the simularity between Lombardi's
>>>>>>>>> philosophy of life and the NFB philosophy. I would say,
>>>>>>>>> though, that Lombardi's philosophy is a step beyond that of
>>>>>>>>> the NFB in that it gives
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you a sort of method for carrying it out. The idea of never
>>>>>>>>> settling for anything short of success is implied in the NFB
>>>>>>>>> philosophy but not spelled out. I think Lombardi's take on the
>>>>>>>>> NFB philosophy would have been that the most important thing
>>>>>>>>> in life for a blind person is striving to reduce blindness to
>>>>>>>>> a mere nuisance.  You may never get there but the most
>>>>>>>>> important thing is to never be satisfied until it is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Johnson"
>>>>>>>>> <stevencjohnson at centurytel.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 7:10 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think it is just cool that you are swimming.  I think the
>>>>>>>>>> best I would at my skill level is circles!  Good for you in
>>>>>>>>>> wanting to be a tri-athelete!
>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:25 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you swim laps and if you have a way to stay on your side
>>>>>>>>>> of the lane, I'd like to hear about it.  I believe most lap
>>>>>>>>>> pools have the swimmers keep right like on a road. You swim
>>>>>>>>>> up the right side of the lane and on the way back you come
>>>>>>>>>> down the other side. The best I've been able to do is
>>
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> swim
>>>>>>>>>> with my right arm flailing out so that i can touch the lane
>>>>>>>>>> divider
>>
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>>>> stroke.  That doesn't really work very well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It isn't really very helpful to tell me my skills need to
>>>>>>>>>> improve.
>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>> all, I already asked for tips on how to improve.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:14 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A lane for yourself alone?  Why?  Is it your swimming skills
>>>>>>>>>>> that vastly need improvement; or, perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>>>>> skills?
>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 2010, at 9:04 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So you're a swimmer, huh?  Do you ever have to share a
>>>>>>>>>>>> lane? If so, how do you do it? I have never managed to do
>>>>>>>>>>>> that successfully.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here
>>>>>>>>>>>> at the pool at the University of Wisconsin, I call ahead
>>>>>>>>>>>> and they set a lane aside for me so I can have it to
>>>>>>>>>>>> myself. Its only a minor sacrifice because there are
>>>>>>>>>>>> usually several lanes with only one person in them. So when
>>>>>>>>>>>> they reserve a lane for me, it only means one other person
>>>>>>>>>>>> has to share a lane.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever done any open water swimming? I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>> enter
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> triathlon but I don't like swimming tethered to someone
>>>>>>>>>>>> else. I just can't get comfortable doing that. It effects
>>>>>>>>>>>> my breathing and I just can't swim normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wm. Ritchhart"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 5:04 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the new digital talking book player.  I do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wish it was still smaller and lighter.  With all my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> swimming gear, lunch, back-up cane and everything else I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have in my gym bag; it is still too heavy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Steve Johnson
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:22 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> John, I have not tried one myself yet, so this is good to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 3:26 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man, I just got one of those new digital book players from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the National Library Service.  You might wonder why a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer nerd like myself took so long to ask for one of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those things. Well, I guess mostly the reason is that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have 2 tape players that I bought myself plus the one from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NLS. So now I have to use the player from the NLS all of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But holy cow, is this thing nice. I downloaded a book and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a USB thumb drive and was listening to a book amybe 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes after getting started. And navigation within the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> book is very nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your tax dollars at work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>
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