[nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian signals

Wed May 26 16:17:11 UTC 2010

Super Blind Guy is my term for the person the NFB wants you to be.  This is 
the guy for whom blindness has become a mere nuisance.

Its truely ironic that I am being criticized on this list for not being 
Super Blind Guy. Earlier this month, I was thuroughly trashed on the acb-l 
list for insisting that everyone should try to be Super Blind Guy. IMO, that 
is the goal every blind person should set. But I don't think that should be 
an official policy of the NFB because they have no right to tell people how 
to be blind.

Nobody has a right to tell anyone else how to deal with their disability.  I 
happen to agree that with proper training blindness can be reduced to a mere 
nuisance. But I bristle at the NFB telling me that I should feel that way. 
That's a personal value that nobody has a right to determine on my behalf. 
I happen to agree with that value judgement but I would never tell anyone 
that they have to share my values. I think they should share them but that 
decision *must* be left up to the individual.

The NFB has an ethical responsibility to represent those who do not share 
its values.  In fact, the NFB should not even *have* values. The NFB is not 
a church or a religious organization. It should not be dictating values. 
That is inappropriate and unethical.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Marks" <blind.grizzly at gmail.com>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian signals

> It's OK to be blind.  And it's sure a lot more functional to develop solid
> blindness skills.  Blind people can either fix our environments or we can
> learn how to be good at being blind.  Most of us blend the two options for
> the best effect.  APS give us information about our environment.  They 
> don't
> affect the alternative techniques of blindness, though.
>
> What does this common sense approach have to do with blaming the victim 
> and
> being super blind?  Also, what does being super blind mean?  Aren't we
> talking about function here?  I thought the re-print of the speech was
> pretty good stuff.  When I read it, I thought that we are starting to turn 
> a
> corner to a better understanding of APS.
>
>
>
> -----
> Jim Marks
> blind.grizzly at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of John G. Heim
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:16 AM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian 
> signals
>
> My mobility skills are not at issue here. The fact is that not everyone 
> has
> perfect mobility skills and everyone can make a mistake. I've already 
> posted
>
> a link to an article about the ways that audible walk signals help blind
> people deal with confusing and difficult situations.  Did you read that
> article?
>
> In fact, my mobility skills are just fine. But that's not the point. I 
> have
> had access to some of the best mobility training in the world via the
> Wisconsin Council of the Blind and Guide dogs for the Blind. But not
> everyone has that access. And even if they do, everyone makes mistakes.
> Audible walk signlas help blind people avoid mistakes.
>
> Actually, I'm glad you brought this up. Blaming the blind person for their
> problems is not a solution. But all too often, that is exactly what the 
> NFB
> does.  Its a direct result of the NFB philosophy that blindness can be
> reduced to a mere nuiscance. Well, that may or may not even be true. But 
> the
>
> main problem with it is that it inevitably results in blaming the victim. 
> If
>
> you can't cross a street without audible walk signals, that's your 
> problem.
> If you're not Super Blind Guy (or Gal), the NFB has no use for you.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at att.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 7:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian 
> signals
>
>
> Maybe you should get some travel training, I don't like them because when
> the dam things are makeing all the raket, I can't hear the traffic.
> This is a fact of life, people don't always stop for a red light, I want 
> to
> be able to hear them.
> Maybe someone on the list can explain to you how blind people are able to
> tell when the light is ready for you to cross.
> These things are where sighted people get there negative stereotypes from.
> They think that we can't do anything for our selves, like open a door, 
> cross
> the street, find a seat, carry our food, take care of our kids, and much
> more.
> Its guys like you that hold us back.
> That's just one reason that they wont hire us, they think we can't do
> anything.
> I know someone else like you, he wont even go to the store or to the bank 
> by
> him self, and he knows how to, but wants everyone to know that blind 
> people
> are stupid and helpless.
> Maybe you should get rehab to send you to one of the NFB training centers.
> I whent to the Colorado center myself, they are good, I'm not shore about
> the other 2, but I'm shore they are good as well.
> They can show you how to tell when the light changes, and when and how to
> cross the street
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian 
> signals
>
>
> Yes, of course I need audible walk signals.
>
> I hope you're not trying to imply that I shouldn't need audible walk
> signals. By that logic, visible walk signals are also unnecessary. That
> would imply that cities all over the globe have wasted millions of dollars
> installing visible walk signals for sighted people.  If you don't believe
> that visible walk signals help sighted people cross streets more safely, 
> you
> should contact the traffic engineers in your city and they will set you
> straight. Just as visible signals help sighted people cross streets more
> safely, audible signals help blind pedestrians cross streets more safely.
>
> Here is a link to some information about audible walk signals helping 
> blind
> people cross streets more safely:
> http://www.apsguide.org/appendix_c_research.cfm
>
> If you have any reason to believe that audible signals do not help blind
> pedestrians cross the street more safely, I would like to see it.  It
> certainly seems counter-intuitive to say that audible signals would not 
> make
> blind pedestrians safer. If you're going to say that, you are obligated to
> provide some evidence.  The NFB should not be organizing protests against
> something that by all appearances would make blind pedestrians safer 
> unless
> they have some compelling reason to believe it doesn't work.
>
> Otherwise, the NFB should stop playing games with the lives of blind
> pedestrians.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at att.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian 
> signals
>
>
> Why do you think the NFB  should change its stance?
> Do you need them?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian 
> signals
>
>
> As recently as 2003, the NFB organized protests against audible  walk
> signals:
> http://nfb.org/legacy/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030103.htm
>
> Personally, I feel there is no more important issue on which the NFB needs
> to change its stance. This is about as wrong-headed as an organization can
> be.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>; "Florida Association of
> Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>; "NAGDU Mailing List,the National
> Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>; "NFB Florida"
> <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>; "NFB of Florida parents" <fopbc at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Dianne Ketts" <dianne at ketts.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 8:20 AM
> Subject: [nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian signals
>
>
> The FCB is streaming their convention and I am currently listening to a
> speech by an O & M instructor, Dianne Ketts, who happens to work for the
> Lighthouse of Central Florida. I know Dianne personally and find her to be 
> a
> very progressive-thinking O & M instructor. She is explaining the various
> kinds of Pedestrian signals, traffic lights and the use of audible
> pedestrian signals. She particularly emphasizes that you need proper O & M
> techniques and training whether or not the audible indications exists,
> saying that the audible signal only indicates that the walk signal is
> showing, not that it is safe to cross the street. I find her outlook
> refreshing and the lecture fascinating.  It is interesting to learn how 
> the
> various lights are actuated as well as how the audible pedestrian signals
> work. I think it would be of great use to have an explanation of these
> various signals and the technology regarding APS'S AT A FUTURE NFBF
> CONVENTION AND EVEN POSSIBLY AT AN NFB national convention. I really 
> believe
> with traffic patterns changing, with more and more cars on our roadways,
> this information is useful for us to know. She says, for example, that
> whether there is an APS or not, there are some intersections where it is
> imperative for people to find the push-button. Really interesting!
>
> Sherri
>
>
> Sherri Brun, NFBF Secretary and NewslineR Coordinator
> E-mail:  flmom2006 at gmail.com
> http://www.nfbnewslineonline.org
> http://www.nfbflorida.org
>
> "Don't give up something you want forever for something you want only for
> now!"
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