[nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)

Wed Apr 13 21:16:23 UTC 2011

Mr. Freeman, let's try to invent a new alternative.
I'm not a computer genius, but if someone can do this, I'd appreciate it.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/13/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> Guys and gals:
>
> Let's get real here.  John Heim is absolutely correct:  his boss may be a
> decent person.  But she doesn't care a farthing how CAPTCHAs affect the
> blind.  There aren't enough of us to truly affect offenders' bottom lines.
> All webmasters want is to stop spam (something all of us can sympathize with
> unless we are the spammers!).  If a few thousand people are inconvenienced
> or shut out of sites, so what?  The Federal agency for which I work gets
> something like fifty thousand spam emails (yes, you heard right) each *week*
> and this wastes a heck of a lot of resources and bandwidth.  I'd guess its
> websites do also.
>
> Fulminating and venting one's spleen in irrational outbursts avails us
> nothing.  Neither does writing to webmasters; we'd never be able to cover
> them all.  Even if we can get courts to rule that the ADA applies, I'd bet
> good money that Joshua's nemesis site would fall under the religious
> exceptions to ADA requirements.
>
> I sympathize with everyone's indignation; I am stymied by CAPTCHA's also.
> But I'm realistic enough to realize that it's an ongoing race between
> spammers/hackers and web developers.  CAPTCHAs certainly aren't the ultimate
> answer but, I submit, any solution that would allow screen-readers access
> will also allow spammers/hackers access.  And yes, I've used Delta Airlines
> wonderful alternative to the CAPTCHA available on their flights where one
> answers a math question.  But does this not discriminate against the
> learning-disabled?  And I could envision a spammer employing a Cray or other
> super-machine to simply sort through possible answers and brute-force its
> way to the solution.
>
> My psychological defense is to figure that any website that leaves me out I
> don't need either.
>
> I can see only two solutions:  build up a billion-dollar legal fund to sue
> every web developer or website owner (and we must figure on losing at least
> half the suits) or getting down to brass tacks and inventing and patenting a
> CAPTCHA alternative that appears convincing enough to be adopted by a
> majority of web developers.
>
>
> Mike Freeman
> sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2011, at 9:26, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> I also agree.
>> So, what's the holdup?
>> Let's get the sighted people on this list to visit every site, (I've
>> mentioned the sites on the Music Talk list,) and contact the
>> Webmasters.
>> Some of us can't contact them, because of the captcha.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/13/11, Gloria Whipple <ladygloria at webband.com> wrote:
>>> Peter,
>>>
>>> I agree with you all the way!
>>>
>>>
>>> Gloria Whipple
>>> Corresponding Secretary
>>> Inland Empire chapter
>>> nfb of WA
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 09:05
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)
>>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>>    Audio captchas are of no use to the deaf-blind . For God sakes if we
>>> can
>>>
>>> develop the technology that allowed us to put a blind guy behind the
>>> wheel
>>> of an automobile and drive it independently we should be able to find a
>>> way
>>> to allow captchas to be recognized by screen readers while protecting Web
>>> sites and such from the bad guys. The belief that the technology to do
>>> this
>>> is not there doesn't wash with me.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 8:38 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)
>>>
>>>
>>> John, what's really bad, is if there are multiple blind people in a
>>> church denomination, and their site's contact form, or church locater,
>>> are inaccessible.
>>> My organization's Website is like that.
>>> They have an audio file that's supposed to play the captcha, but it won't
>>> play.
>>> I'll post the Website here.
>>> www.upci.org
>>> I've contacted their IT department, but they have done nothing about
>>> this.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 4/13/11, John Heim <john at johnheim.net> wrote:
>>>> A few months ago, the Department of Justice said that the ADA applies to
>>>> web
>>>> sites. This is a big deal. Since the Department of Justice is
>>>> responsible
>>>> for enforcing laws like the ADA, if the Department of Justice says the
>>>> ADA
>>>> applies to web sites, then it does.  A business would have to go to
>>>> court
>>>> to
>>>> show that the DOJ overstepped its bounds in making that determination.
>>>> But
>>>> the burden of proof would be on them. Well, anyway, the point is that
>>>> CAPTCHAs are now illegal.
>>>>
>>>> IMO, this is one of the toughest issues we face. My own boss came to me
>>>> yesterday wanting to put a captcha on our web site. I had to talk really
>>>> long to get her to not do it. It was a really tough sell and I only got
>>>> her
>>>> to agree on a provisional basis. If an alternate solution I came up with
>>>> doesn't work, she will probably insist on using the captcha. Her point
>>>> is
>>>> that the page we want to protect simply isn't visited very often by
>>>> blind
>>>> people. Its not worth the trouble to make it accessible.
>>>>
>>>> I've pointed out that its a matter of principle. I've even mentioned
>>>> what
>>>> a
>>>> bitter thing it would be for me to install captcha software. I've
>>>> pointed
>>>> out our legal responsibilities. All this makes little to no difference.
>>>> All
>>>> that really matters is that captchas work. Honestly, I was sitting there
>>>> thinking of trying to write software to break captchas and sending it to
>>>> every spammer I can find.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, my boss is not a bad person by any means. She is very open
>>>> minded. I just think that if you're not blind, you don't see what the
>>>> problem is.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 10:25 PM
>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, it's Joshua Lester.
>>>>> I've posted this on the Faith Talk list, and the Music list, but I'm
>>>>> not having any success.
>>>>> I've just thought of a question.
>>>>> I'd like everyone's feedback.
>>>>> How can we better influence the Webmasters of their sites, to make
>>>>> more accessible contact forms?
>>>>> How can they make them, where they can differentiate, between Jaws, and
>>>>> a
>>>>> Robot?
>>>>> I want them to make the captcha, where Jaws can catch it, and read it
>>>>> to
>>>>> us.
>>>>> What can we do?
>>>>> Thanks for your ideas.
>>>>> This is for all Websites.
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nfb-talk:
>>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40johnheim.ne
>>> t
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nfb-talk:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nfb-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.r
>>> r.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nfb-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/ladygloria%40webba
>>> nd.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nfb-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nfb-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nfb-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>