[nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)
Mike Freeman
k7uij at panix.com
Thu Apr 14 04:31:26 UTC 2011
Just ignore it.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:27 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)
I'd like to know, for my part, how you back such a statement. Seems to me
that, if you're going to make a statement; regardless what it may be, you'd
better be prepared to back it up pwith facts.
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
Skype name:
barefootedray
Facebook:
facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
On Apr 13, 2011, at 10:12 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
> We need to do something about them.
> It's because of them, that we can't access many Websites.
> All I want, is for there to be a way where we can deal with this captcha.
> How can we solve this problem?
> That's my main objective with this thread.
> We need to invent another alternative, and try to get it accepted.
> Any computer whizzes, out there?
> Let's work on the software.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 4/13/11, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>> Joshua and others, discussion of CAPTCHA's and how they impact the
>> blind is on topic for this list, but discussion of punishment for
>> spammers, immigrants etc., is not. Further, many of the spammers are
>> from the good old U.S. of A. Where are you going to send them?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 09:20 PM 4/13/2011, you wrote:
>>> If we're investigating spammers, it's something to consider.
>>> I'm not starting a debate on illegal imigration, I'm just giving an
>>> idea on who some of these people are.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 4/13/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>>> Let's avoid that topic, shall we?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>> sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 13, 2011, at 16:02, Joshua Lester
>>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's another great idea!
>>>>> Also, ship the illegals back!
>>>>> I wouldn't be surprised, if some of the spammers are illegal
imigrants.
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/13/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Actually what I favor is a different approach: deny foreign aid
>>>>>> to countries that harbor spammers!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>>> sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2011, at 14:16, Joshua Lester
>>>>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mr. Freeman, let's try to invent a new alternative.
>>>>>>> I'm not a computer genius, but if someone can do this, I'd
>>>>>>> appreciate it.
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/13/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Guys and gals:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let's get real here. John Heim is absolutely correct: his
>>>>>>>> boss may be a decent person. But she doesn't care a farthing
>>>>>>>> how CAPTCHAs affect the blind. There aren't enough of us to
>>>>>>>> truly affect offenders' bottom lines.
>>>>>>>> All webmasters want is to stop spam (something all of us can
>>>>>>>> sympathize with unless we are the spammers!). If a few
>>>>>>>> thousand people are inconvenienced or shut out of sites, so
>>>>>>>> what? The Federal agency for which I work gets something like
>>>>>>>> fifty thousand spam emails (yes, you heard right) each
>>>>>>>> *week*
>>>>>>>> and this wastes a heck of a lot of resources and bandwidth.
>>>>>>>> I'd guess its websites do also.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fulminating and venting one's spleen in irrational outbursts
>>>>>>>> avails us nothing. Neither does writing to webmasters; we'd
>>>>>>>> never be able to cover them all. Even if we can get courts to
>>>>>>>> rule that the ADA applies, I'd bet good money that Joshua's
>>>>>>>> nemesis site would fall under the religious exceptions to ADA
>>>>>>>> requirements.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I sympathize with everyone's indignation; I am stymied by
>>>>>>>> CAPTCHA's also.
>>>>>>>> But I'm realistic enough to realize that it's an ongoing race
>>>>>>>> between spammers/hackers and web developers. CAPTCHAs
>>>>>>>> certainly aren't the ultimate answer but, I submit, any
>>>>>>>> solution that would allow screen-readers access will also allow
>>>>>>>> spammers/hackers access. And yes, I've used Delta Airlines
>>>>>>>> wonderful alternative to the CAPTCHA available on their flights
>>>>>>>> where one answers a math question. But does this not
>>>>>>>> discriminate against the learning-disabled? And I could
>>>>>>>> envision a spammer employing a Cray or other super-machine to
>>>>>>>> simply sort through possible answers and brute-force its way to
>>>>>>>> the solution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My psychological defense is to figure that any website that
>>>>>>>> leaves me out I don't need either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can see only two solutions: build up a billion-dollar legal
>>>>>>>> fund to sue every web developer or website owner (and we must
>>>>>>>> figure on losing at least half the suits) or getting down to
>>>>>>>> brass tacks and inventing and patenting a CAPTCHA alternative
>>>>>>>> that appears convincing enough to be adopted by a majority of
>>>>>>>> web developers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>>>>> sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2011, at 9:26, Joshua Lester
>>>>>>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also agree.
>>>>>>>>> So, what's the holdup?
>>>>>>>>> Let's get the sighted people on this list to visit every site,
>>>>>>>>> (I've mentioned the sites on the Music Talk list,) and contact
>>>>>>>>> the Webmasters.
>>>>>>>>> Some of us can't contact them, because of the captcha.
>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/13/11, Gloria Whipple <ladygloria at webband.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Peter,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I agree with you all the way!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>>>>>>>> Corresponding Secretary
>>>>>>>>>> Inland Empire chapter
>>>>>>>>>> nfb of WA
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 09:05
>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Audio captchas are of no use to the deaf-blind . For God
>>>>>>>>>> sakes if we can
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> develop the technology that allowed us to put a blind guy
>>>>>>>>>> behind the wheel of an automobile and drive it independently
>>>>>>>>>> we should be able to find a way to allow captchas to be
>>>>>>>>>> recognized by screen readers while protecting Web sites and
>>>>>>>>>> such from the bad guys. The belief that the technology to do
>>>>>>>>>> this is not there doesn't wash with me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 8:38 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> John, what's really bad, is if there are multiple blind
>>>>>>>>>> people in a church denomination, and their site's contact
>>>>>>>>>> form, or church locater, are inaccessible.
>>>>>>>>>> My organization's Website is like that.
>>>>>>>>>> They have an audio file that's supposed to play the captcha,
>>>>>>>>>> but it won't play.
>>>>>>>>>> I'll post the Website here.
>>>>>>>>>> www.upci.org
>>>>>>>>>> I've contacted their IT department, but they have done
>>>>>>>>>> nothing about this.
>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/13/11, John Heim <john at johnheim.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> A few months ago, the Department of Justice said that the
>>>>>>>>>>> ADA applies to web sites. This is a big deal. Since the
>>>>>>>>>>> Department of Justice is responsible for enforcing laws like
>>>>>>>>>>> the ADA, if the Department of Justice says the ADA applies
>>>>>>>>>>> to web sites, then it does. A business would have to go to
>>>>>>>>>>> court to show that the DOJ overstepped its bounds in making
>>>>>>>>>>> that determination.
>>>>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>>>>> the burden of proof would be on them. Well, anyway, the
>>>>>>>>>>> point is that CAPTCHAs are now illegal.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> IMO, this is one of the toughest issues we face. My own boss
>>>>>>>>>>> came to me yesterday wanting to put a captcha on our web
>>>>>>>>>>> site. I had to talk really long to get her to not do it. It
>>>>>>>>>>> was a really tough sell and I only got her to agree on a
>>>>>>>>>>> provisional basis. If an alternate solution I came up with
>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't work, she will probably insist on using the captcha.
>>>>>>>>>>> Her point is that the page we want to protect simply isn't
>>>>>>>>>>> visited very often by blind people. Its not worth the
>>>>>>>>>>> trouble to make it accessible.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've pointed out that its a matter of principle. I've even
>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned what a bitter thing it would be for me to install
>>>>>>>>>>> captcha software. I've pointed out our legal
>>>>>>>>>>> responsibilities. All this makes little to no difference.
>>>>>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>>> that really matters is that captchas work. Honestly, I was
>>>>>>>>>>> sitting there thinking of trying to write software to break
>>>>>>>>>>> captchas and sending it to every spammer I can find.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> By the way, my boss is not a bad person by any means. She is
>>>>>>>>>>> very open minded. I just think that if you're not blind, you
>>>>>>>>>>> don't see what the problem is.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 10:25 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, it's Joshua Lester.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've posted this on the Faith Talk list, and the Music
>>>>>>>>>>>> list, but I'm not having any success.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've just thought of a question.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like everyone's feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>>> How can we better influence the Webmasters of their sites,
>>>>>>>>>>>> to make more accessible contact forms?
>>>>>>>>>>>> How can they make them, where they can differentiate,
>>>>>>>>>>>> between Jaws, and a Robot?
>>>>>>>>>>>> I want them to make the captcha, where Jaws can catch it,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and read it to us.
>>>>>>>>>>>> What can we do?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is for all Websites.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>
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