[nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from Chairman Gordon Gund

Sun Apr 24 13:21:43 UTC 2011

So, so true

I cannot stand trolls like him.

Gloria Whipple
Corresponding Secretary
Inland Empire chapter
nfb of WA

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 05:07
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
ChairmanGordon Gund

I just get so tired of the same damned unrelenting straw men brought 
up time and again, anywhere he can wedge these things in, whether 
they make sense or not.  He's not been back two weeks and already 
we're all illogical, unethical, and he's back to the straw man about 
how we all want blind people to beg for help from sighted people.

If I have learned one thing from politics, it's that certain parties 
always want to re-frame the argument so that either you agree with 
them, or you are against something that nobody ever would be.  Either 
I am right, or you support cruelty to kittens!  What do kittens have 
to do with anything?

So if you listen to John, if you oppose a particular modification to 
the US currency, you want blind people to be helpless and dependent, 
despite the fact that very few are helpless or dependent in this 
matter today, unless it be by choice.  Money identifiers are now 
$100, and my cell phone can do it for the huge investment of TWO 
BUCKS.  John and I basically agree that electronic identifiers are 
not a suitable solution to the problem, and yet I cannot support his 
baseless attacks (and incessant) incendiary claims against the NFB on 
even this issue.  Despite the NFB's involvement in making the 
currency accessible, John's blanket statement is that we oppose doing 
this on every level, and in THREE YEARS (or longer, I think) he has 
yet to accept a single person's claim to the contrary.

If you oppose chirping signals, you want blind people to die crossing 
streets.  An outright lie.  The NFB opposed these things because the 
data showed that they drowned out cars resulting in more blind people 
at risk, not less.  Moreover, as of eight or nine years ago, the NFB 
has been actively developing a safe replacement for these squawking 
monsters, and the documented position of the organization is that we 
support their installation when they will benefit people.  John's 
blanket assertion is that we oppose them universally.  Our own 
resolutions to the contrary are not evidence, and nobody can prove 
otherwise to his satisfaction.

If you oppose blanket mandates for descriptive video without any 
consideration of what kind of descriptive video would be useful or in 
what context, then you are a monster who wants blind people to be 
deprived, uninformed, and miserable.  The fact that descriptive video 
doesn't actually exist as any kind of standard like closed captioning 
does and that it's just shoehorned haphazardly into SAP channels, 
that nobody has actually determined what to describe or how, or that 
any effort to mandate this now can only serve to prevent a universal 
and standardized solution from emerging is irrelevant.  Again we have 
the blanket assertion that the NFB opposes what is good and right, is 
evil for doing so, and not one single argument to the contrary is 
ever afforded even a first thought, let alone a second.

I could go on, at length, but the fact remains that nobody has ever 
swayed John Heim on a single issue, ever, in the history of his 
presence on this list.  We are all just illogical, unethical, and he 
is brutalized and attacked from all sides, asking Dave Andrews to 
sanction anyone who bruises his poor, fragile ego.  He can dish it 
out, in spades, in the most incendiary language possible, but he 
can't take his own medicine.

And more importantly, he won't shut the hell up about any of it.  He 
just continues to trash the NFB, and the good people of this list.  
We have not forgotten this, and it should be clear that John is 
immovable on pretty much anything, and that includes a fundamental 
belief that the NFB is harmful to the blind.  So then, what is he 
doing here?  And why is he permitted to remain, spewing this crap day 
after day?

Joseph

On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 08:16:28PM -0700, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>Too bad that troll doesn't fall off the face of the earth!
>
>
>Gloria Whipple
>Corresponding Secretary
>Inland Empire chapter
>nfb of WA
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 17:10
>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
>ChairmanGordon Gund
>
>The troll returns to one of his favorite ACB-inspired arguments about
>how evil the NFB is.  I say again, go away.
>
>Joseph
>
>
>On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 04:24:42PM -0500, John Heim wrote:
>>Yet, the NFB would have us ask for help to identify our money.
>>
>>
>>On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:21 PM, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Joseph,
>>>
>>>Well done! I like what you had to say.
>>>
>>>My prayers go out to you and I hope you get better and I hope you
>>>are free
>>>from cancer soon.
>>>
>>>All my best,
>>>
>>>
>>>Gloria Whipple
>>>Corresponding Secretary
>>>Inland Empire chapter
>>>nfb of WA
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-
>>>bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>>>Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 19:01
>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
>>>ChairmanGordon Gund
>>>
>>>Gloria,
>>>
>>>I think what it boils down to is that language is a powerful thing.
>>>The words a person uses are less important than the intent behind
>>>them, but from a choice of certain words over others we can infer an
>>>intent.  I have been battling cancer.  This implies something about
>>>me and my relationship to cancer.  I have been living with it, and I
>>>don't want to be.  In fact, I am fighting to make it gone, because
>>>cancer is a horrible thing.
>>>
>>>Am I fighting blindness?  Do I suffer from blindness?  Am I forced to
>>>use alternative techniques?  Well yes, I do suffer as a result of
>>>blindness.  Not because of blindness itself per se, but because of
>>>the reaction of others to it who are not blind (and a few who are,
>>>sadly).
>>>
>>>The refusal to be pigeon-holed into this "sad existence" of
>>>"suffering because of blindness" is precisely the kind of supposed
>>>"unethical" behavior the NFB engages in by spreading our philosophy.
>>>It is akin to those during the 60s arguing against the notion that
>>>they were afflicted somehow with being black.  Blindness is a bad
>>>thing only if you make it be so, and we refuse to make it so for
>>>ourselves.  Moreover, we refuse to allow others to force us into that
>>>role.
>>>
>>>Those who would disparage our efforts to do so are not our friends,
>>>just as those who would have you look down upon a man of color
>>>because his skin was darker than, say, mine is.  Is he somehow worse
>>>of because of that?  Is he lessened as a man or as a person?  Does he
>>>deserve something less, or for that matter anything more, than any
>>>other person simply because of the color of his skin?  Most today
>>>would say out of hand that he should have the same opportunities
>>>anyone would have.  No more, but certainly no less!
>>>
>>>The blind deserve the same equality that our more sunburn-resistant
>>>brothers demanded more than forty years ago.  In just one generation
>>>we have gone from a person of color being denied the use of a
>>>drinking fountain to electing him to the United States presidency.
>>>If there remains racial inequality, it cannot be because of the color
>>>of a person's skin anymore.  Some individuals may yet harbor such
>>>attitudes (and I recently observed some of those people in a public
>>>display, sadly), but society rejects such people as undesirable when
>>>they are exposed.  (And believe me, we are exposing them all over
>>>YouTube, since the local media won't even report it.)
>>>
>>>But what about the blind?  The same society who refuses to allow a
>>>black man to be treated as a second class citizen openly condones it
>>>when a blind man is treated likewise.  Disability is one of only two
>>>acceptable areas of discrimination that remain in this country.  (The
>>>other is so far removed from topical for this list that I won't
>>>discuss it here, much to Dave's relief.)
>>>
>>>We cannot continue to meekly request that we be treated as first
>>>class citizens.  It didn't work in the 1940s, and it hasn't worked
>>>yet.  Only by refusing to be anything less will we finally achieve
>>>that.  Unfortunately, that means getting a bit uppity over language
>>>that paints us into a corner, as it were.  I'm not here to be pitied
>>>or someone's inspiration.  I'm here because I've got a job to do, and
>>>within the National Federation of the Blind, that job is to achieve
>>>for myself and for all of us the basic rights of first class
>>>citizenship afforded to anyone else in this country today, regardless
>>>of their skin color, sexual orientation, and a whole host of other
>>>things.
>>>
>>>I don't expect any more, but I also won't accept any less.
>>>
>>>Joseph
>>>
>>>On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 09:33:15AM -0700, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>>>>James,
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for explaining what I wanted to say about this subject.
>>>>
>>>>I am glad someone is on my side!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Gloria Whipple
>>>>Corresponding Secretary
>>>>Inland Empire chapter
>>>>nfb of WA
>>>
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