[nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from ChairmanGordon Gund

Constance Canode satin-bear at sbcglobal.net
Sun Apr 24 15:59:52 UTC 2011 

Thank you Joseph.  Your words are elloquent and your facts are 
perfect.  If I had one wish for this list, it would be to have him 
removed permanently.  Let him have his meager little life in his own 
world, a world of unrealistic beliefs.
At 07:06 AM 4/24/2011, you wrote:
>I just get so tired of the same damned unrelenting straw men brought 
>up time and again, anywhere he can wedge these things in, whether 
>they make sense or not.  He's not been back two weeks and already 
>we're all illogical, unethical, and he's back to the straw man about 
>how we all want blind people to beg for help from sighted people.
>
>If I have learned one thing from politics, it's that certain parties 
>always want to re-frame the argument so that either you agree with 
>them, or you are against something that nobody ever would 
>be.  Either I am right, or you support cruelty to kittens!  What do 
>kittens have to do with anything?
>
>So if you listen to John, if you oppose a particular modification to 
>the US currency, you want blind people to be helpless and dependent, 
>despite the fact that very few are helpless or dependent in this 
>matter today, unless it be by choice.  Money identifiers are now 
>$100, and my cell phone can do it for the huge investment of TWO 
>BUCKS.  John and I basically agree that electronic identifiers are 
>not a suitable solution to the problem, and yet I cannot support his 
>baseless attacks (and incessant) incendiary claims against the NFB 
>on even this issue.  Despite the NFB's involvement in making the 
>currency accessible, John's blanket statement is that we oppose 
>doing this on every level, and in THREE YEARS (or longer, I think) 
>he has yet to accept a single person's claim to the contrary.
>
>If you oppose chirping signals, you want blind people to die 
>crossing streets.  An outright lie.  The NFB opposed these things 
>because the data showed that they drowned out cars resulting in more 
>blind people at risk, not less.  Moreover, as of eight or nine years 
>ago, the NFB has been actively developing a safe replacement for 
>these squawking monsters, and the documented position of the 
>organization is that we support their installation when they will 
>benefit people.  John's blanket assertion is that we oppose them 
>universally.  Our own resolutions to the contrary are not evidence, 
>and nobody can prove otherwise to his satisfaction.
>
>If you oppose blanket mandates for descriptive video without any 
>consideration of what kind of descriptive video would be useful or 
>in what context, then you are a monster who wants blind people to be 
>deprived, uninformed, and miserable.  The fact that descriptive 
>video doesn't actually exist as any kind of standard like closed 
>captioning does and that it's just shoehorned haphazardly into SAP 
>channels, that nobody has actually determined what to describe or 
>how, or that any effort to mandate this now can only serve to 
>prevent a universal and standardized solution from emerging is 
>irrelevant.  Again we have the blanket assertion that the NFB 
>opposes what is good and right, is evil for doing so, and not one 
>single argument to the contrary is ever afforded even a first 
>thought, let alone a second.
>
>I could go on, at length, but the fact remains that nobody has ever 
>swayed John Heim on a single issue, ever, in the history of his 
>presence on this list.  We are all just illogical, unethical, and he 
>is brutalized and attacked from all sides, asking Dave Andrews to 
>sanction anyone who bruises his poor, fragile ego.  He can dish it 
>out, in spades, in the most incendiary language possible, but he 
>can't take his own medicine.
>
>And more importantly, he won't shut the hell up about any of it.  He 
>just continues to trash the NFB, and the good people of this list.
>We have not forgotten this, and it should be clear that John is 
>immovable on pretty much anything, and that includes a fundamental 
>belief that the NFB is harmful to the blind.  So then, what is he 
>doing here?  And why is he permitted to remain, spewing this crap 
>day after day?
>
>Joseph
>
>
>On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 08:16:28PM -0700, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>>Too bad that troll doesn't fall off the face of the earth!
>>
>>
>>Gloria Whipple
>>Corresponding Secretary
>>Inland Empire chapter
>>nfb of WA
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>>Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 17:10
>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
>>ChairmanGordon Gund
>>
>>The troll returns to one of his favorite ACB-inspired arguments about
>>how evil the NFB is.  I say again, go away.
>>
>>Joseph
>>
>>
>>On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 04:24:42PM -0500, John Heim wrote:
>>>Yet, the NFB would have us ask for help to identify our money.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:21 PM, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Joseph,
>>>>
>>>>Well done! I like what you had to say.
>>>>
>>>>My prayers go out to you and I hope you get better and I hope you
>>>>are free
>>>>from cancer soon.
>>>>
>>>>All my best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Gloria Whipple
>>>>Corresponding Secretary
>>>>Inland Empire chapter
>>>>nfb of WA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-
>>>> >>>bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>>>>Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 19:01
>>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
>>>>ChairmanGordon Gund
>>>>
>>>>Gloria,
>>>>
>>>>I think what it boils down to is that language is a powerful thing.
>>>>The words a person uses are less important than the intent behind
>>>>them, but from a choice of certain words over others we can infer an
>>>>intent.  I have been battling cancer.  This implies something about
>>>>me and my relationship to cancer.  I have been living with it, and I
>>>>don't want to be.  In fact, I am fighting to make it gone, because
>>>>cancer is a horrible thing.
>>>>
>>>>Am I fighting blindness?  Do I suffer from blindness?  Am I forced to
>>>>use alternative techniques?  Well yes, I do suffer as a result of
>>>>blindness.  Not because of blindness itself per se, but because of
>>>>the reaction of others to it who are not blind (and a few who are,
>>>>sadly).
>>>>
>>>>The refusal to be pigeon-holed into this "sad existence" of
>>>>"suffering because of blindness" is precisely the kind of supposed
>>>>"unethical" behavior the NFB engages in by spreading our philosophy.
>>>>It is akin to those during the 60s arguing against the notion that
>>>>they were afflicted somehow with being black.  Blindness is a bad
>>>>thing only if you make it be so, and we refuse to make it so for
>>>>ourselves.  Moreover, we refuse to allow others to force us into that
>>>>role.
>>>>
>>>>Those who would disparage our efforts to do so are not our friends,
>>>>just as those who would have you look down upon a man of color
>>>>because his skin was darker than, say, mine is.  Is he somehow worse
>>>>of because of that?  Is he lessened as a man or as a person?  Does he
>>>>deserve something less, or for that matter anything more, than any
>>>>other person simply because of the color of his skin?  Most today
>>>>would say out of hand that he should have the same opportunities
>>>>anyone would have.  No more, but certainly no less!
>>>>
>>>>The blind deserve the same equality that our more sunburn-resistant
>>>>brothers demanded more than forty years ago.  In just one generation
>>>>we have gone from a person of color being denied the use of a
>>>>drinking fountain to electing him to the United States presidency.
>>>>If there remains racial inequality, it cannot be because of the color
>>>>of a person's skin anymore.  Some individuals may yet harbor such
>>>>attitudes (and I recently observed some of those people in a public
>>>>display, sadly), but society rejects such people as undesirable when
>>>>they are exposed.  (And believe me, we are exposing them all over
>>>>YouTube, since the local media won't even report it.)
>>>>
>>>>But what about the blind?  The same society who refuses to allow a
>>>>black man to be treated as a second class citizen openly condones it
>>>>when a blind man is treated likewise.  Disability is one of only two
>>>>acceptable areas of discrimination that remain in this country.  (The
>>>>other is so far removed from topical for this list that I won't
>>>>discuss it here, much to Dave's relief.)
>>>>
>>>>We cannot continue to meekly request that we be treated as first
>>>>class citizens.  It didn't work in the 1940s, and it hasn't worked
>>>>yet.  Only by refusing to be anything less will we finally achieve
>>>>that.  Unfortunately, that means getting a bit uppity over language
>>>>that paints us into a corner, as it were.  I'm not here to be pitied
>>>>or someone's inspiration.  I'm here because I've got a job to do, and
>>>>within the National Federation of the Blind, that job is to achieve
>>>>for myself and for all of us the basic rights of first class
>>>>citizenship afforded to anyone else in this country today, regardless
>>>>of their skin color, sexual orientation, and a whole host of other
>>>>things.
>>>>
>>>>I don't expect any more, but I also won't accept any less.
>>>>
>>>>Joseph
>>>>
>>>>On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 09:33:15AM -0700, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>>>>>James,
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for explaining what I wanted to say about this subject.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am glad someone is on my side!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Gloria Whipple
>>>>>Corresponding Secretary
>>>>>Inland Empire chapter
>>>>>nfb of WA
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>net
>>>
>>>
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