[nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV
Tue Jul 12 20:52:59 UTC 2011


Hello Terry,

The E-mail string I added to has his original description of what happened at the end of the string of messages.  Last one down the list.  If you need it, I can send it off list.


But, for now, I'm back to work.

/s/

Bennett

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 1:45 PM
To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

Can someone send me a copy of what happened to Joseph, please.  I have so many e-mails and I must have missed it and do not know what all the arguing is about.  What did they do to him?  I handed over my cane and 2 bags, walked through the metal detecter then was asked, only ibn one airport to take off my shoes.  I think they quickly checked me with some device, but I have never been actually tutched.  I was surprised I did not have to take off my medic allert necklace or my watch.

Terry Powers from MD.


-----Original Message-----
From: Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 4:34 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
isters,

Based on Josephs last post, I went back to read his commentary on what happened at the Orlando Airport.  I certainly understand your outrage Joseph at being treated the way you were there. And, I certainly don't understand the reason for the officer's possibly lying, and  threatening to arrest you when you were asking just to retrieve missing articles that were indeed there.  I think you can and should file a complaint about the treatment with the TSA, and any other agency dealing with airline issues.  I'm not sure a discrimination case would get anywhere though, because of all the accounts of mistreatment of other, nonblind or disabled passengers.  In other words, the law doesn't frown on treatment that is similar for the many.  If the other side can make the case that everyone is treated equally bad, then it isn't discrimination.  

But I certainly can understand the humiliation concerning your treatment at the Florida airport, and condemn that kind of action toward anybody.  

More generally, remember the reasons for all the security measures.  Terrorists have indeed changed our lives, despite political protestations that they wouldn't be able to do so.  And, remember too, that one of those who planned one of the attacks on the World Trade Center was a blind cleric.  Remember the "Blind Sheik"?

All that having been said, we do pick our battles of necessity.   Otherwise, we would be constantly stressed out, and the only one that affects is the stressed individual.

Keep on fighting for dignity, and maintain it too .

/s/

Bennett Prows
-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 4:08 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

Ashley, this is what you want:

> Walkers, crutches, canes, and other devices that can fit through the 
> X-ray machine must undergo X-ray screening (with exception of white 
> collapsible cane)
> 
> 
> Ask the Security Officer for assistance (arm, hand, shoulder to lean 
> on) until you are reunited with your device.
> 
> 
> The Security Officer will perform a hand inspection of your equipment 
> if it cannot fit through the X-ray machine.
> 
> 
> Notify the Security Officer if your device requires special handling.
> 
> 
> Walkers will be visually inspected and any attached basket, 
> pockets, or compartment(s) will be physically inspected.
> 
> 
> All items hanging from a cane or walker must be submitted for X-ray 
> inspection.
> 
> 
> Ask the Security Officer for assistance, if needed, when placing 
> items on the X-ray belt.
> 
> 
> Ask for assistance with your device if you need it.
> 
> 
> Collapse canes whenever possible before they are put on the X-ray 
> belt.
> 
> 
> Once device(s) have been screened, Security Officers will hand back 
> your device(s) to you in such a manner that helps you proceed 
> without difficulty.


Taken directly from 
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/specialneeds/editorial_1370.shtm 
verbatim.

My cane was to be returned to me, and then I was to be permitted to 
proceed.  Because that is what I requested happen, I was subjected to 
punitive extra screening, in public.  My cane WAS scanned properly 
and no problem was found with it, nor with me.  The "security checks" 
were entirely punitive in nature, and made to be as degrading as 
possible because I would not be led around like a small child.

Joseph

On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 05:59:38PM -0400, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:
>Steve,
>Yes. Same with me.
>I've gone through the metal detector with the cane and if I use my 
>graphite cane, it does not set it off.
>Nor will NFB canes with metal tips,. They always screen the cane 
>after I walk through with it.
>I think Joeseph is upset for being "punished" for
>desiring to walk with his cane. I understand. I'd like to know the 
>regulations, so we know our rights.
>It seems like different TSA screeners do different things.
>Thanks, Michael for informing us that pat downs can  be done in a 
>private area.
>
>Ashley
>
>-----Original Message----- From: Steve Jacobson
>Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 5:15 PM
>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>
>Mike,
>
>While I generally just send my cane through the scanner and walk the 
>three feet without it, my impression was the fact
>that the search and pat down appears to be a punishment for what Joe 
>did rather than a security procedure was the
>issue.  I have taken my cane through the detector, and have generally 
>found that if I keep the tip on the floor it
>doesn't set it off, but of course, that doesn't guarantee it isn't 
>loaded with gun powder or something.  If I am interpreting
>what Joe said correctly, though, I don't blame him for feeling upset.  
>I truly feel that some of the security people get off
>on the power that they have and use it to win a battle of wills 
>needlessly. However, I don't think we're going to win
>anything in court these days if it involves security.  Whether that 
>is right or wrong is really irrelevent for now because it
>is the way things are.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Steve Jacobson
>
>On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 12:31:36 -0700, Mike Freeman wrote:
>
>>Joseph:
>
>>In my opinion, your outrage is misplaced. Courts all the way up to the
>>Supreme Court have ruled that civil rights are extensively modified in
>>airports and that, in effect, TSA can violate your personal space in ways
>>that would not be tolerated in other settings. I know some will disagree
>>with me here but if one can't walk three feet through a metal detector
>>without one's cane, one is pretty badly off! Abstract principles don't
>>matter in these cases: as I say, you won't win in court.
>
>>Mike
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>>Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 9:33 AM
>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>
>>I am copying Scott LaBarre on this message for his opinion, but have
>>not done so openly to keep him from receiving every single reply to
>>this message as well.
>
>>I had absolutely no trouble in my home state of Oregon getting
>>through Transportation Security Administration security screening.
>>The TSA officials at Portland International Airport know the blind
>>quite well, and they know the laws.  They follow them.
>
>>In Florida, however, returning from convention, I was told that I was
>>required by law to relinquish my cane and step through the scanner
>>with a sighted guide.  I said that once scanned, I could step through
>>with my cane.  It contains metal only on its tip.
>
>>The TSA official told me that was against the law.
>
>>I insisted that it was not, and offered to share the specific
>>regulations in question.
>
>>The TSA officer did not want to see the regulations.  She told me
>>that hundreds of blind people were coming through the airport, and
>>not one single person before me had protested being required to
>>travel without their cane.
>
>>I once again offered the copy of the regulations, which were not
>>accepted.  Another officer offered to send a supervisor at this
>>point, which the officer declined as well.
>
>>I was told at that point that I would be allowed to have my cane, but
>>that the consequence of my unwillingness to comply with being
>>stripped of my dignity would be a full security pat-down.  I was told
>>this before I ever stepped through the metal detector.
>
>>I did not set off the metal detector upon stepping through, as you
>>might predict using a rigid fiberglass NFB cane.  I was, however,
>>still subjected to the humiliating additional screening as a punitive
>>matter.
>
>>During this full security pat-down, I was forced, in full view of
>>other passengers, to remove articles of clothing, had my groin and
>>other personal areas felt by security personnel, and tested for
>>explosive chemical residues among other things.  I was told that this
>>was all being done because I had in fact set off the metal detector,
>>though it had made no sound when I passed through it as it had when
>>the officer before me had done so.
>
>>After another five minutes, most (but not all) of my belongings were
>>returned to me.  The TSA officers refused to account for my things,
>>and threatened arrest when I would not leave the testing area,
>>without the return of all of my possessions.  To defuse this
>>situation, an officer who had not been part of the preceding was came
>>over and located my missing items and returned them to me.
>
>>I want to know why it is that the government is permitted to treat
>>the blind in this shameful way?  And to whom do we register our
>>formal, written complaint?  At the very least, the TSA of this
>>particular airport need training in the law concerning passengers
>>with disabilities.  More properly, a full investigation of the
>>repeated lies and attempts by officers to cover up this incident
>>through threats and intimidation is also warranted.
>
>>TSA records video of their checkpoints, and I think that video will
>>show, for example, that I did not actually set off the metal detector
>>upon passing through it, among other things.  They do not record
>>audio, however, so we may not be able to prove the lies, the threats,
>>and the intimidation unless others were denied their canes (which I
>>already know they were) and any others stood up for their rights
>>(which the TSA say none ever did.)
>
>>What I can prove is that we of the National Federation of the Blind
>>do not request the same dignity that is afforded to the sighted
>>public.  To do so would be to presume the possibility that we ought
>>to be treated any differently.  No, we insist upon it!  If my own
>>treatment is any indication, the Transportation Security
>>Administration seems to believe that we are merely asking for equal
>>treatment.  They seem to feel as if they are free to answer in the
>>negative.  I think it is time that we ensure they learn that they are
>>mistaken.  What do you think?
>
>>T. Joseph Carter
>>Just a blind guy trying to get home
>
>
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>
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>
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