[Nfb-web] *Important Alert* Be Aware of and Check Archiving and Other Privacy Options In Mailman Mailing Lists

[David Andrews]

On 1/24/2012 10:15 AM, Mika Pyyhkala wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
> Thanks for your note and thoughts.
>
> One nuance I did not mention is that I was referring to Mailman lists
> that one hosts on their own domain.  In other words, not NFBNet lists,
> but just a local installation of Mailman in a web hosting account.
>
> Its obviously a very simple setting to chage, but something you may
> not think about or may inadvertintly overlook.
>
> Best,
> Mika
>
>
> On 1/24/12, Steve Jacobson<steve.jacobson at visi.com>  wrote:
>> Mika,
>>
>> Since I've helped as a backup for Dave Andrews in the past and have looked
>> some at options for our
>> state's lists, I would like to raise a couple of points.  First, though, I
>> am not a cheerleader for
>> mailman.  However, I also think that most of your concerns can be managed.
>>
>> When A new list is set up on NFBNET, it is not necessarily set up as though
>> it came "out of the box."
>> We have lists that are "hidden" in that they do not show up on our general
>> NFBNET page, and there are
>> hidden lists that are also not archived.  Part of the reason for
>> establishing NFBNET has been to provide
>> a way to show the public what issues are important to blind people and to
>> see how blind people think
>> about such issues.  With the increasing number of lists over the years with
>> specific purposes, though,
>> this role is somewhat more complex now.  Dave Andrews is very familiar with
>> the settings that can govern
>> a list and he can be of help.
>>
>> While I do not think it is right for someone to believe a list is private
>> when it isn't, I also think we
>> have to be somewhat realistic about how private e-mail is.  Certainly one
>> does not want controversial
>> legislative plans to be immediately available on Google, but one always has
>> to be aware of the fact that
>> once written, something can be accidentally forwarded to the wrong place.
>> Some care should be taken as
>> to what is put in writing even if not archived.
>>
>> In looking at other list software, one has to be careful to not just look at
>> what the software can do
>> but also how well it can be managed.  I find it very frustrating, for
>> example, that I do not seem to be
>> able to simply change an e-mail address on Google Groups.  It appears I have
>> to delete and add again.
>> If any of you know that there is a better way, please let me know.  We have
>> also tried to provide a
>> system that one can count on to be accessible over the long haul.  More than
>> one of us has experienced
>> the frustration of managing a list only to find one day that we can no
>> longer easily perform certain
>> functions.
>>
>> Please understand that my intent here is not to be a commercial for Mailman
>> or NFBNET, but rather just
>> to explain some of what we try to do and to make the point that you are not
>> the first to raise these
>> concerns.  Your concerns are valid ones, but they are known issues when a
>> new list is set up on NFBNET.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:26:06 -0500, Mika Pyyhkala wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> There are some settings and options in the widely used Mailman mailing
>>> list program which you should be aware of, and verify that your lists
>>> are appropriately configured.
>>> Archiving Options
>>> When a Mailman mailing list is set up out-of-the-box, the Archiving
>>> Options are set such that the list traffic is searchable.  In other
>>> words, the default setup is not private, and data can be searched via
>>> search engines that is posted on these mailing lists.  This could be
>>> an issue if you internally use Mailman mailing lists in your affiliate
>>> or group for confidential discussions, or for items that are not yet
>>> ready for public release.  It is simple to turn the search feature
>>> off, but again, this is not the out of box default configuration when
>>> you create a list, and the system does not readily prompt you that
>>> this should be checked.
>>> Other Options: There are other privacy options which you may want to
>>> check that have to do with, for example, where list members can see
>>> other subscribers.
>>> I would also be curious if any of you recommend alternatives to the
>>> Mailman mailing list solution.  While it has a lot of features, it is
>>> somewhat cumbersome to use, and again I don't think its out-of-box
>>> configuration is the best.  It also sends out the monthly reminders
>>> which you may not need, especially if you have an announce only list.
>>> I realize you may be able to turn these auto generated messages off,
>>> but I have to think there is a better mailing list solution especially
>>> for announcement based or internal use lists (as opposed to forum type
>>> discussion lists) which Mailman originally was likely designed for.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mika Pyyhkala
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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> Hi Mika:

I didn't think you were specifically referring to nfbnet.org hosted 
mailing lists.  You have given some good advice -- and some of the 
problems with mailman and/or mailing lists in general is that many 
people really don't understand them.

Steve has given a good explanation of our general practices here.  We 
have public and private lists.  Personally I think that most public 
lists should be archived and searchable, they are public lists after all 
-- and people can benefit from past posts.  Now that our whole site 
search is fixed once again, there are some powerful search options 
available.

I don't normally give moderators and others access to Mailman settings, 
with so many lists, varying degrees of knowledge, etc., I don't want 
each list set differently, will be too confusing.

I can of course change individual settings for list moderators, and 
discuss with the list sponsor what they want initially.

I have been using Mailman for 10 years, and while I can't say I would 
never change, I would have to have a good reason.  I pretty well know 
how it works, what it will do etc.  Mailman 3 is just about to go into 
beta, and it will be more user oriented, over the current individual 
list orientation -- and password reminders will go away.

Dave