[Nfb-web] *Important Alert* Be Aware of and Check Archiving and Other Privacy Options In Mailman Mailing Lists

[Michael Hansen]

Mika,

In the past year the NFB of Nebraska has moved our lists to NFBNet
from another in house solution we were using. We did this for several
reasons but when we did security / privacy was a top issue that I
discussed with Dave.

We have 2 lists one is wide open. Anyone can join, Anyone can look at
the archives, but the posts have to be approved by a moderator.   The
second list is more secure. Subscriptions have to be approved by the
moderator, posts have to be approved by the moderator and the archives
are password protected.

Both of our lists are publicly listed so people know about them but
they do have the above restrictions. This configuration has worked out
very well for us so far. I can't find anything negative about the
service Dave provides, I can only make the following 2 comments.

1. It frustrates me (because I am a knowledgiable power user and like
to do things myself) that I can't have total control over my own list.
That being said I understand and respect Dave's point of view
regaurding not wanting the server to become a free for all.

2. It might be nice if Dave put togther a new list request packet. To
disclose and explain the options that are available. Dave is typically
happy to configure a list any way that you a person wants, however if
you don't know what to ask for (or know that something is available)
then that can be limiting as well.

Dave Job well done.
Mike
---
Mike Hansen
NFB of Nebraska


On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 2:01 PM, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 10:15 AM, Mika Pyyhkala wrote:
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> Thanks for your note and thoughts.
>>
>> One nuance I did not mention is that I was referring to Mailman lists
>> that one hosts on their own domain.  In other words, not NFBNet lists,
>> but just a local installation of Mailman in a web hosting account.
>>
>> Its obviously a very simple setting to chage, but something you may
>> not think about or may inadvertintly overlook.
>>
>> Best,
>> Mika
>>
>>
>> On 1/24/12, Steve Jacobson<steve.jacobson at visi.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Mika,
>>>
>>> Since I've helped as a backup for Dave Andrews in the past and have
>>> looked
>>> some at options for our
>>> state's lists, I would like to raise a couple of points.  First, though,
>>> I
>>> am not a cheerleader for
>>> mailman.  However, I also think that most of your concerns can be
>>> managed.
>>>
>>> When A new list is set up on NFBNET, it is not necessarily set up as
>>> though
>>> it came "out of the box."
>>> We have lists that are "hidden" in that they do not show up on our
>>> general
>>> NFBNET page, and there are
>>> hidden lists that are also not archived.  Part of the reason for
>>> establishing NFBNET has been to provide
>>> a way to show the public what issues are important to blind people and to
>>> see how blind people think
>>> about such issues.  With the increasing number of lists over the years
>>> with
>>> specific purposes, though,
>>> this role is somewhat more complex now.  Dave Andrews is very familiar
>>> with
>>> the settings that can govern
>>> a list and he can be of help.
>>>
>>> While I do not think it is right for someone to believe a list is private
>>> when it isn't, I also think we
>>> have to be somewhat realistic about how private e-mail is.  Certainly one
>>> does not want controversial
>>> legislative plans to be immediately available on Google, but one always
>>> has
>>> to be aware of the fact that
>>> once written, something can be accidentally forwarded to the wrong place.
>>> Some care should be taken as
>>> to what is put in writing even if not archived.
>>>
>>> In looking at other list software, one has to be careful to not just look
>>> at
>>> what the software can do
>>> but also how well it can be managed.  I find it very frustrating, for
>>> example, that I do not seem to be
>>> able to simply change an e-mail address on Google Groups.  It appears I
>>> have
>>> to delete and add again.
>>> If any of you know that there is a better way, please let me know.  We
>>> have
>>> also tried to provide a
>>> system that one can count on to be accessible over the long haul.  More
>>> than
>>> one of us has experienced
>>> the frustration of managing a list only to find one day that we can no
>>> longer easily perform certain
>>> functions.
>>>
>>> Please understand that my intent here is not to be a commercial for
>>> Mailman
>>> or NFBNET, but rather just
>>> to explain some of what we try to do and to make the point that you are
>>> not
>>> the first to raise these
>>> concerns.  Your concerns are valid ones, but they are known issues when a
>>> new list is set up on NFBNET.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:26:06 -0500, Mika Pyyhkala wrote:
>>>
>>>> Greetings,
>>>> There are some settings and options in the widely used Mailman mailing
>>>> list program which you should be aware of, and verify that your lists
>>>> are appropriately configured.
>>>> Archiving Options
>>>> When a Mailman mailing list is set up out-of-the-box, the Archiving
>>>> Options are set such that the list traffic is searchable.  In other
>>>> words, the default setup is not private, and data can be searched via
>>>> search engines that is posted on these mailing lists.  This could be
>>>> an issue if you internally use Mailman mailing lists in your affiliate
>>>> or group for confidential discussions, or for items that are not yet
>>>> ready for public release.  It is simple to turn the search feature
>>>> off, but again, this is not the out of box default configuration when
>>>> you create a list, and the system does not readily prompt you that
>>>> this should be checked.
>>>> Other Options: There are other privacy options which you may want to
>>>> check that have to do with, for example, where list members can see
>>>> other subscribers.
>>>> I would also be curious if any of you recommend alternatives to the
>>>> Mailman mailing list solution.  While it has a lot of features, it is
>>>> somewhat cumbersome to use, and again I don't think its out-of-box
>>>> configuration is the best.  It also sends out the monthly reminders
>>>> which you may not need, especially if you have an announce only list.
>>>> I realize you may be able to turn these auto generated messages off,
>>>> but I have to think there is a better mailing list solution especially
>>>> for announcement based or internal use lists (as opposed to forum type
>>>> discussion lists) which Mailman originally was likely designed for.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Mika Pyyhkala
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nfb-web mailing list
>>>> Nfb-web at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-web_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Nfb-web:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-web_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Nfb-web at nfbnet.org
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>>> Nfb-web:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-web_nfbnet.org/pyyhkala%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfb-web mailing list
>> Nfb-web at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-web_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfb-web:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-web_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>> Hi Mika:
>
>
> I didn't think you were specifically referring to nfbnet.org hosted mailing
> lists.  You have given some good advice -- and some of the problems with
> mailman and/or mailing lists in general is that many people really don't
> understand them.
>
> Steve has given a good explanation of our general practices here.  We have
> public and private lists.  Personally I think that most public lists should
> be archived and searchable, they are public lists after all -- and people
> can benefit from past posts.  Now that our whole site search is fixed once
> again, there are some powerful search options available.
>
> I don't normally give moderators and others access to Mailman settings, with
> so many lists, varying degrees of knowledge, etc., I don't want each list
> set differently, will be too confusing.
>
> I can of course change individual settings for list moderators, and discuss
> with the list sponsor what they want initially.
>
> I have been using Mailman for 10 years, and while I can't say I would never
> change, I would have to have a good reason.  I pretty well know how it
> works, what it will do etc.  Mailman 3 is just about to go into beta, and it
> will be more user oriented, over the current individual list orientation --
> and password reminders will go away.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Nfb-web:
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