[Nfb-web] *Important Alert* Be Aware of and Check Archiving and Other Privacy Options In Mailman Mailing Lists

[David Andrews]

I am replying to my own message -- because I was using a different 
mail client for the first time, and it automatically bottom posted my 
reply, which many of us don't expect.  In case you missed it, I said:

>>Hi Mika:
>
>I didn't think you were specifically referring to nfbnet.org hosted 
>mailing lists.  You have given some good advice -- and some of the 
>problems with mailman and/or mailing lists in general is that many 
>people really don't understand them.
>
>Steve has given a good explanation of our general practices 
>here.  We have public and private lists.  Personally I think that 
>most public lists should be archived and searchable, they are public 
>lists after all -- and people can benefit from past posts.  Now that 
>our whole site search is fixed once again, there are some powerful 
>search options available.
>
>I don't normally give moderators and others access to Mailman 
>settings, with so many lists, varying degrees of knowledge, etc., I 
>don't want each list set differently, will be too confusing.
>
>I can of course change individual settings for list moderators, and 
>discuss with the list sponsor what they want initially.
>
>I have been using Mailman for 10 years, and while I can't say I 
>would never change, I would have to have a good reason.  I pretty 
>well know how it works, what it will do etc.  Mailman 3 is just 
>about to go into beta, and it will be more user oriented, over the 
>current individual list orientation -- and password reminders will go away.
>
>Dave


At 02:01 PM 1/24/2012, you wrote:
>On 1/24/2012 10:15 AM, Mika Pyyhkala wrote:
>>Hi Steve,
>>
>>Thanks for your note and thoughts.
>>
>>One nuance I did not mention is that I was referring to Mailman lists
>>that one hosts on their own domain.  In other words, not NFBNet lists,
>>but just a local installation of Mailman in a web hosting account.
>>
>>Its obviously a very simple setting to chage, but something you may
>>not think about or may inadvertintly overlook.
>>
>>Best,
>>Mika
>>
>>
>>On 1/24/12, Steve Jacobson<steve.jacobson at visi.com>  wrote:
>>>Mika,
>>>
>>>Since I've helped as a backup for Dave Andrews in the past and have looked
>>>some at options for our
>>>state's lists, I would like to raise a couple of points.  First, though, I
>>>am not a cheerleader for
>>>mailman.  However, I also think that most of your concerns can be managed.
>>>
>>>When A new list is set up on NFBNET, it is not necessarily set up as though
>>>it came "out of the box."
>>>We have lists that are "hidden" in that they do not show up on our general
>>>NFBNET page, and there are
>>>hidden lists that are also not archived.  Part of the reason for
>>>establishing NFBNET has been to provide
>>>a way to show the public what issues are important to blind people and to
>>>see how blind people think
>>>about such issues.  With the increasing number of lists over the years with
>>>specific purposes, though,
>>>this role is somewhat more complex now.  Dave Andrews is very familiar with
>>>the settings that can govern
>>>a list and he can be of help.
>>>
>>>While I do not think it is right for someone to believe a list is private
>>>when it isn't, I also think we
>>>have to be somewhat realistic about how private e-mail is.  Certainly one
>>>does not want controversial
>>>legislative plans to be immediately available on Google, but one always has
>>>to be aware of the fact that
>>>once written, something can be accidentally forwarded to the wrong place.
>>>Some care should be taken as
>>>to what is put in writing even if not archived.
>>>
>>>In looking at other list software, one has to be careful to not just look at
>>>what the software can do
>>>but also how well it can be managed.  I find it very frustrating, for
>>>example, that I do not seem to be
>>>able to simply change an e-mail address on Google Groups.  It appears I have
>>>to delete and add again.
>>>If any of you know that there is a better way, please let me know.  We have
>>>also tried to provide a
>>>system that one can count on to be accessible over the long haul.  More than
>>>one of us has experienced
>>>the frustration of managing a list only to find one day that we can no
>>>longer easily perform certain
>>>functions.
>>>
>>>Please understand that my intent here is not to be a commercial for Mailman
>>>or NFBNET, but rather just
>>>to explain some of what we try to do and to make the point that you are not
>>>the first to raise these
>>>concerns.  Your concerns are valid ones, but they are known issues when a
>>>new list is set up on NFBNET.
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>
>>>Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>>On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:26:06 -0500, Mika Pyyhkala wrote:
>>>
>>>>Greetings,
>>>>There are some settings and options in the widely used Mailman mailing
>>>>list program which you should be aware of, and verify that your lists
>>>>are appropriately configured.
>>>>Archiving Options
>>>>When a Mailman mailing list is set up out-of-the-box, the Archiving
>>>>Options are set such that the list traffic is searchable.  In other
>>>>words, the default setup is not private, and data can be searched via
>>>>search engines that is posted on these mailing lists.  This could be
>>>>an issue if you internally use Mailman mailing lists in your affiliate
>>>>or group for confidential discussions, or for items that are not yet
>>>>ready for public release.  It is simple to turn the search feature
>>>>off, but again, this is not the out of box default configuration when
>>>>you create a list, and the system does not readily prompt you that
>>>>this should be checked.
>>>>Other Options: There are other privacy options which you may want to
>>>>check that have to do with, for example, where list members can see
>>>>other subscribers.
>>>>I would also be curious if any of you recommend alternatives to the
>>>>Mailman mailing list solution.  While it has a lot of features, it is
>>>>somewhat cumbersome to use, and again I don't think its out-of-box
>>>>configuration is the best.  It also sends out the monthly reminders
>>>>which you may not need, especially if you have an announce only list.
>>>>I realize you may be able to turn these auto generated messages off,
>>>>but I have to think there is a better mailing list solution especially
>>>>for announcement based or internal use lists (as opposed to forum type
>>>>discussion lists) which Mailman originally was likely designed for.
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Mika Pyyhkala