[Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland

Aziza daydreamingncolor at gmail.com
Tue Feb 9 22:19:39 UTC 2010 

I agree we shouldn't assume our help is wanted, but I don't think we should 
assume it isn't wanted either. We should simply be prepared to offer it if 
necessary, without all the extra baggage of whether they are ACB or not.
Aziza
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angela Fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
To: "'NFB of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland


> Hello everyone,
> The message was written by an eye witness who knows very well of
> Chris's ACB connections, but was distributed by an unknown third party who
> was only doing her friend a favor by passing around the information. The
> person who posted the message to this list might or might not know about
> Chris's ACB connections, and may not be aware of the political differences
> between the organizations. This is not a request for help, but an attempt 
> to
> inform.
> I think Chris should know that the NFB is there for anyone who is
> experiencing discrimination based on the use of service animals, or 
> anything
> blindness related. I also believe that we can not assume that Chris needs,
> wants, or would ask for our help. The offer of help is implicit; that's 
> what
> we're here for and as one knowledgeable about blindness organizations 
> Chris
> should know that.  I have learned the hard way however that aggressively
> offering help to someone who doesn't want it does more to drive them away
> than to actually help them.
> Just my two cents
> Angela
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On
> Behalf Of Aziza
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:22 AM
> To: NFB of California List
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>
> Mike,
> With all do respect, I believe it is unfair as to suggest the unlikeliness
> of the ACB to come forward offering help to Mary, or any other NFB member 
> if
> the need arose. We don't know this for certain, and cases in the past that
> may have turned out this way are just that, in the past. We have no right 
> to
> think of new ACB members the same way. Furthermore, the idea that we will
> not willingly offer our services or support because we think is unwanted 
> or
> unneeded is furthering the rift between the two organizations. Afterall,
> what is the worst the ACB can do, tell us no? I sincerely believe the NFB
> has faced worse situations. It is high time both the ACB and NFB stop 
> making
> asumtions as to how the other organization will react, those asumtions and
> how they are acted on are simply fueling the rift that should have been
> repaired, or at least be considerably less than what it is a long time 
> ago.
> Aziza Cano
> California Association of Blind Students, First Vice-President Channel
> Islands Chapter, Secretary Young Energetic Students Supporting 
> Independence,
> President www.yessinfb.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>
>
>> Darian:
>>
>> Chris is the immediate past President of ACB. He therefore (a) knows
>> NFB and NFBC are here and (b) presumably has the full faith, backing
>> and resources of ACB to assist him to seek resolution of the incident.
>> Moreover, Mitch Pomerantz, current ACB President, lives in your fair
>> state. You can bet your booties that he is aware of the situation.
>>
>> I am not saying NFB and NFBC shouldn't help. All I am saying is that
>> we should let Chris et al come to us. If he wishes our help, we will
>> gladly give it. But, given politics, I see little reason to tread
>> where we are presumably not needed or wanted.
>>
>> Let me put it another way: were Mary to face discrimination as a
>> teacher, how likely do you think it would be for ACB to call her up
>> offering to help or, for that matter, for her to accept such help?
>>
>> As I say, I'm not saying we shouldn't help. All I am saying is that we
>> should do Chris et al the courtesy of allowing them to choose whom
>> they would have advocate for them.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
>> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, Feb 9, 2010 0:13:05
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This situation is not only unfortunate an frustrating, but absolutely
>>> out of line.
>>>  I have   a few thoughts, if I may:
>>>  1.   a very frustrating thing is it seems as if Law enforcement knows
>>> not it's  responsibility to  enforce all of the laws it must.  It
>>> almost seems as if  Police officers and the like have  no
>>> understanding of the ADA  and/or how to  operate around individuals
>>> with disabilities.
>>>
>>>  2. in  addition to  the information given,  would it  not be wise to
>>> include Shannon Dillon's contact information- as she is  the current
>>> president of cagdu-- the state where  this all  took place is  in
>>> california, after all.
>>>   Also,  what's the harm in having  either Mary  willows/ Chuck
>>> Krugman, or  both  contact these individuals as needed?
>>>  somehow, I'm thinking  it does not matter if  they were members of
>>> ACB, NFV or  PETA; the main thing is that these indivviduals should
>>> be  made aware that  not only do they have  resources, but actual
>>> people- people in state that can support them should they need it.
>>>   Please forgive my corniness, but  these people are  blind people
>>> like you and I,  they have been treated unfairly and unjustly by
>>> so-called professionals that are supposed to  provide the highest
>>> quility of service and they've far from done this.   We in the NFB
>>> want  first- class citizanship for all blind people and if we truly
>>> want this,  there  is little doubt in my mind that  we should be
>>> ready and willing to  step in as needed.
>>>    just my thoughts,
>>>   Darian
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/8/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I think by supplying the information we have provided, both in
>>> > resources and oppinion, the people involved will probably make the
>>> > right decision as to wehter or not they should go forward in this
>>> > issue. I believe that at the moment the affiliation does not
>>> > matter, what matters is that we have done what we can at the moment
>>> > to provide the information necessary to move forward if they wish
>>> > to do so. It is up to the parties involved to ask for further
>>> > assistance if they find it necessary to do so.
>>> > Aziza
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>>> > To: <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 5:42 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >ar Given the affiliation of the aggrieved parties, perhaps it would
>>> >be wise ar to ascertain if they wish assistance in putting their
>>> >case.
>>> >ar
>>> >ar Mike Freeman
>>> >ar
>>> >ar ----- Original Message -----
>>> >ar From: unknown <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> ar To: "NFB of California
>>> >List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org> ar Date: Monday, Feb 8, 2010 17:15:29
>>> >ar Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland ar
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The appropriate things to do regarding this matter are as follows:
>>> >>> 1. If the City of Oakland has an ADA coordinator file an official
>>> >>> complaint with the City as if this is a paratransit company under
>>> >>> contract with the city to provide paratransit services they are
>>> >>> responsible. for implementation of service and a need to insure
>>> >>> that staff are appropriately trained. 2. Officially file a
>>> >>> complaint with U.S. Department of Justice as a definite ADA
>>> >>> violation occurred. The procedures for filing such a complaint
>>> >>> are available at www.ada.gov.
>>> >>> While it is important to make people aware of what happened
>>> >>> change can only occur if official documentation in the form of
>>> >>> ADA complaints are filed.
>>> >>> For
>>> >>> the record I am not aware of any circumstances where a public
>>> >>> transit driver can refuse to transport a properly identified
>>> >>> service animal. Not only is this clearly a violation of the ADA
>>> >>> it is also a violation of California law as well. If needed I can
>>> >>> research and furnish the appropriate citation.
>>> >>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>> >>> President, NFB Central Valley Chapter
>>> >>> 1237 P Street
>>> >>> Fresno ca 93721
>>> >>> 559-266-9237
>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> From: "Anne Ward" <inland2wards at att.net>
>>> >>> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;@smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com;>
>>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:29 PM
>>> >>> Subject: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> > This was sent to me this morning by Judith Lesner, who asked me
>>> >>> > to distribute it widely.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Anne Ward
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Discrimination in Oakland?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Last night my very good friend Marvelena Quesada was told that
>>> >>> > she had to "sit in the back of the bus".  In this case, an East
>>> >>> > Bay ParaTransit bus.
>>> >>> > The person givithng the order was the bus's dispatcher.
>>> >>> > Marvelena's
>>> >>> > status that led up to the banishment to the back of the bus was
>>> >>> > her traveling with Darla.  Marvelena is blind and Darla is her
>>> >>> > seeing eye dog.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > To start at the beginning, Marvelena and her husband Chris Gray
>>> >>> > came to
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > my
>>> >>> > house for dinner.  They are both blind and Chris is the past
>>> >>> > president of the American Council of the Blind which is a
>>> >>> > national consumer group.
>>> >>> > They had arranged to be picked up by East Bay ParaTransit for a
>>> >>> > ride home.
>>> >>> > At about 9:15 they got a call that their ride was outside.  I
>>> >>> > walked out with them to bus number 352.  The driver asked if
>>> >>> > the dog was going along too.  Marvelena replied that it was.
>>> >>> > The driver then decided that her bus was not positioned
>>> >>> > correctly and drove about a half block down the street.
>>> >>> > By the time we got to her she was on her cell phone and refused
>>> >>> > entry to Chris and Marvelena, yelling at them through the
>>> >>> > partially opened door that no one had said anything about a dog
>>> >>> > and that she had "issues"
>>> >>> > with
>>> >>> > dogs.  She said they had to wait for another paratransit  bus
>>> >>> > to come and take them.  Chris said that they had a legal right
>>> >>> > to get on the bus with the dog and forced his way through the
>>> >>> > partially opened door and got on the bus.  The driver slammed
>>> >>> > the door and wouldn't let Marvelena and Darla on the bus.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Meanwhile the driver was speaking to her dispatcher on a
>>> >>> > speaker phone.
>>> >>> > That was when the dispatcher made her Solomon like decision to
>>> >>> > end the impasse, "Go take the dog and sit in the back of the
>>> >>> > bus".  I informed the driver and dispatcher that it was no
>>> >>> > longer the 50's where they could get away with that.  Chris and
>>> >>> > Marvelena said that she would not move to the back.  While this
>>> >>> > was going on, Marvelena and Darla managed to get on the bus.
>>> >>> > Marvelena was calling paratransit and she and I and another
>>> >>> > friend were conferring through the open door.  At that point
>>> >>> > the passenger on the bus said that she had had it with waiting
>>> >>> > so long and would walk the rest of the way home.  She got off
>>> >>> > the bus and left.  The driver reported that the passenger had
>>> >>> > left the bus because of the dog which was a baldfaced lie.  The
>>> >>> > driver then said that the company was sending another bus to
>>> >>> > take them home.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > This all went on for some time when the driver closed the doors
>>> >>> > so that
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > we
>>> >>> > could no longer talk to Chris and Marvelena, turned out the
>>> >>> > lights and left the bus.  Marvelena and Chris were left alone
>>> >>> > in a locked bus while the driver walked half a block away and
>>> >>> > spoke on her cell phone.
>>> >>> > Chris
>>> >>> > then called 911 and two Oakland policemen arrived shortly there
>>> >>> > after.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > One of the police asked my friend and I what was happening.  I
>>> >>> > explained the situation.  The policeman said something to the
>>> >>> > effect that it depended on the bus company's policy.  I said
>>> >>> > that was nonsense.
>>> >>> > That
>>> >>> > it
>>> >>> > had nothing to do with the bus company, it was a federal law
>>> >>> > called the ADA.  Marvelena and her dog had the same right of
>>> >>> > access to public places as Marvelena did on her own.  He seemed
>>> >>> > unaware of the law.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Finally, after the police arrived, another bus arrived to take
>>> >>> > them home.
>>> >>> > The altercation took about an hour and involved the waste of
>>> >>> > two bus drivers' time as well as that of two Oakland police
>>> >>> > personnel.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Questions that arise:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >  1.. Why when so many people with disabilities are using
>>> >>> > service animals does a company whose sole clientele are people
>>> >>> > with disabilities hire a driver who will not drive a bus with a
>>> >>> > dog on it?
>>> >>> >  2.. If the company feels compelled to hire folks who are
>>> >>> > afraid of dogs, why do they not routinely ask passengers if
>>> >>> > they are traveling with service animals so that they can send a
>>> >>> > not-afraid driver?
>>> >>> >  3.. Why were the driver and the dispatcher not trained by the
>>> >>> > company to know the laws about access and seeing eye dogs?
>>> >>> >  4.. Why was the driver not trained in basic courtesy?  She
>>> >>> > routinely yelled at us, slammed doors and at one point told me
>>> >>> > to "move him."
>>> >>> > She
>>> >>> > was referring to Chris.  I explained that he was a person and
>>> >>> > he moved himself, I did not move him.
>>> >>> >  5.. Why are the Oakland Police not trained in the fundamentals
>>> >>> > of ADA access laws?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Issues to note:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >  1.. Darla was wearing a regulation Seeing Eye harness, did not
>>> >>> > make any noise, did not show any aggression despite the
>>> >>> > shouting of the driver and lay on the floor of the bus near
>>> >>> > Marvelena's feet the entire time.
>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
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>>> >>> > Nfbc-info:
>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/ckru
>>> >>> > gman%40sbcglobal.net
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
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>>> >ar
>>> >ar _______________________________________________
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>>> >ar
>>> >
>>> >
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>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Darian Smith
>>> Skype: The_Bl_Truth
>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com The National Federation of
>>> the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher recruitment campaign to
>>> help attract energetic and passionate individuals into the field of
>>> blindness education, and we need your
>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>>
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>>
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