[Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland

Era Trice et501 at verizon.net
Wed Feb 10 04:56:16 UTC 2010 

right on !
Er Trice....l.a
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angela Fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
To: "'NFB of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland


> Hello everyone,
> The message was written by an eye witness who knows very well of
> Chris's ACB connections, but was distributed by an unknown third party who
> was only doing her friend a favor by passing around the information. The
> person who posted the message to this list might or might not know about
> Chris's ACB connections, and may not be aware of the political differences
> between the organizations. This is not a request for help, but an attempt 
> to
> inform.
> I think Chris should know that the NFB is there for anyone who is
> experiencing discrimination based on the use of service animals, or 
> anything
> blindness related. I also believe that we can not assume that Chris needs,
> wants, or would ask for our help. The offer of help is implicit; that's 
> what
> we're here for and as one knowledgeable about blindness organizations 
> Chris
> should know that.  I have learned the hard way however that aggressively
> offering help to someone who doesn't want it does more to drive them away
> than to actually help them.
> Just my two cents
> Angela
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On
> Behalf Of Aziza
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:22 AM
> To: NFB of California List
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>
> Mike,
> With all do respect, I believe it is unfair as to suggest the unlikeliness
> of the ACB to come forward offering help to Mary, or any other NFB member 
> if
> the need arose. We don't know this for certain, and cases in the past that
> may have turned out this way are just that, in the past. We have no right 
> to
> think of new ACB members the same way. Furthermore, the idea that we will
> not willingly offer our services or support because we think is unwanted 
> or
> unneeded is furthering the rift between the two organizations. Afterall,
> what is the worst the ACB can do, tell us no? I sincerely believe the NFB
> has faced worse situations. It is high time both the ACB and NFB stop 
> making
> asumtions as to how the other organization will react, those asumtions and
> how they are acted on are simply fueling the rift that should have been
> repaired, or at least be considerably less than what it is a long time 
> ago.
> Aziza Cano
> California Association of Blind Students, First Vice-President Channel
> Islands Chapter, Secretary Young Energetic Students Supporting 
> Independence,
> President www.yessinfb.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>
>
>> Darian:
>>
>> Chris is the immediate past President of ACB. He therefore (a) knows
>> NFB and NFBC are here and (b) presumably has the full faith, backing
>> and resources of ACB to assist him to seek resolution of the incident.
>> Moreover, Mitch Pomerantz, current ACB President, lives in your fair
>> state. You can bet your booties that he is aware of the situation.
>>
>> I am not saying NFB and NFBC shouldn't help. All I am saying is that
>> we should let Chris et al come to us. If he wishes our help, we will
>> gladly give it. But, given politics, I see little reason to tread
>> where we are presumably not needed or wanted.
>>
>> Let me put it another way: were Mary to face discrimination as a
>> teacher, how likely do you think it would be for ACB to call her up
>> offering to help or, for that matter, for her to accept such help?
>>
>> As I say, I'm not saying we shouldn't help. All I am saying is that we
>> should do Chris et al the courtesy of allowing them to choose whom
>> they would have advocate for them.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
>> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, Feb 9, 2010 0:13:05
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This situation is not only unfortunate an frustrating, but absolutely
>>> out of line.
>>>  I have   a few thoughts, if I may:
>>>  1.   a very frustrating thing is it seems as if Law enforcement knows
>>> not it's  responsibility to  enforce all of the laws it must.  It
>>> almost seems as if  Police officers and the like have  no
>>> understanding of the ADA  and/or how to  operate around individuals
>>> with disabilities.
>>>
>>>  2. in  addition to  the information given,  would it  not be wise to
>>> include Shannon Dillon's contact information- as she is  the current
>>> president of cagdu-- the state where  this all  took place is  in
>>> california, after all.
>>>   Also,  what's the harm in having  either Mary  willows/ Chuck
>>> Krugman, or  both  contact these individuals as needed?
>>>  somehow, I'm thinking  it does not matter if  they were members of
>>> ACB, NFV or  PETA; the main thing is that these indivviduals should
>>> be  made aware that  not only do they have  resources, but actual
>>> people- people in state that can support them should they need it.
>>>   Please forgive my corniness, but  these people are  blind people
>>> like you and I,  they have been treated unfairly and unjustly by
>>> so-called professionals that are supposed to  provide the highest
>>> quility of service and they've far from done this.   We in the NFB
>>> want  first- class citizanship for all blind people and if we truly
>>> want this,  there  is little doubt in my mind that  we should be
>>> ready and willing to  step in as needed.
>>>    just my thoughts,
>>>   Darian
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/8/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I think by supplying the information we have provided, both in
>>> > resources and oppinion, the people involved will probably make the
>>> > right decision as to wehter or not they should go forward in this
>>> > issue. I believe that at the moment the affiliation does not
>>> > matter, what matters is that we have done what we can at the moment
>>> > to provide the information necessary to move forward if they wish
>>> > to do so. It is up to the parties involved to ask for further
>>> > assistance if they find it necessary to do so.
>>> > Aziza
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>>> > To: <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 5:42 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >ar Given the affiliation of the aggrieved parties, perhaps it would
>>> >be wise ar to ascertain if they wish assistance in putting their
>>> >case.
>>> >ar
>>> >ar Mike Freeman
>>> >ar
>>> >ar ----- Original Message -----
>>> >ar From: unknown <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> ar To: "NFB of California
>>> >List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org> ar Date: Monday, Feb 8, 2010 17:15:29
>>> >ar Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland ar
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The appropriate things to do regarding this matter are as follows:
>>> >>> 1. If the City of Oakland has an ADA coordinator file an official
>>> >>> complaint with the City as if this is a paratransit company under
>>> >>> contract with the city to provide paratransit services they are
>>> >>> responsible. for implementation of service and a need to insure
>>> >>> that staff are appropriately trained. 2. Officially file a
>>> >>> complaint with U.S. Department of Justice as a definite ADA
>>> >>> violation occurred. The procedures for filing such a complaint
>>> >>> are available at www.ada.gov.
>>> >>> While it is important to make people aware of what happened
>>> >>> change can only occur if official documentation in the form of
>>> >>> ADA complaints are filed.
>>> >>> For
>>> >>> the record I am not aware of any circumstances where a public
>>> >>> transit driver can refuse to transport a properly identified
>>> >>> service animal. Not only is this clearly a violation of the ADA
>>> >>> it is also a violation of California law as well. If needed I can
>>> >>> research and furnish the appropriate citation.
>>> >>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>> >>> President, NFB Central Valley Chapter
>>> >>> 1237 P Street
>>> >>> Fresno ca 93721
>>> >>> 559-266-9237
>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> From: "Anne Ward" <inland2wards at att.net>
>>> >>> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;@smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com;>
>>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:29 PM
>>> >>> Subject: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> > This was sent to me this morning by Judith Lesner, who asked me
>>> >>> > to distribute it widely.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Anne Ward
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Discrimination in Oakland?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Last night my very good friend Marvelena Quesada was told that
>>> >>> > she had to "sit in the back of the bus".  In this case, an East
>>> >>> > Bay ParaTransit bus.
>>> >>> > The person givithng the order was the bus's dispatcher.
>>> >>> > Marvelena's
>>> >>> > status that led up to the banishment to the back of the bus was
>>> >>> > her traveling with Darla.  Marvelena is blind and Darla is her
>>> >>> > seeing eye dog.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > To start at the beginning, Marvelena and her husband Chris Gray
>>> >>> > came to
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > my
>>> >>> > house for dinner.  They are both blind and Chris is the past
>>> >>> > president of the American Council of the Blind which is a
>>> >>> > national consumer group.
>>> >>> > They had arranged to be picked up by East Bay ParaTransit for a
>>> >>> > ride home.
>>> >>> > At about 9:15 they got a call that their ride was outside.  I
>>> >>> > walked out with them to bus number 352.  The driver asked if
>>> >>> > the dog was going along too.  Marvelena replied that it was.
>>> >>> > The driver then decided that her bus was not positioned
>>> >>> > correctly and drove about a half block down the street.
>>> >>> > By the time we got to her she was on her cell phone and refused
>>> >>> > entry to Chris and Marvelena, yelling at them through the
>>> >>> > partially opened door that no one had said anything about a dog
>>> >>> > and that she had "issues"
>>> >>> > with
>>> >>> > dogs.  She said they had to wait for another paratransit  bus
>>> >>> > to come and take them.  Chris said that they had a legal right
>>> >>> > to get on the bus with the dog and forced his way through the
>>> >>> > partially opened door and got on the bus.  The driver slammed
>>> >>> > the door and wouldn't let Marvelena and Darla on the bus.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Meanwhile the driver was speaking to her dispatcher on a
>>> >>> > speaker phone.
>>> >>> > That was when the dispatcher made her Solomon like decision to
>>> >>> > end the impasse, "Go take the dog and sit in the back of the
>>> >>> > bus".  I informed the driver and dispatcher that it was no
>>> >>> > longer the 50's where they could get away with that.  Chris and
>>> >>> > Marvelena said that she would not move to the back.  While this
>>> >>> > was going on, Marvelena and Darla managed to get on the bus.
>>> >>> > Marvelena was calling paratransit and she and I and another
>>> >>> > friend were conferring through the open door.  At that point
>>> >>> > the passenger on the bus said that she had had it with waiting
>>> >>> > so long and would walk the rest of the way home.  She got off
>>> >>> > the bus and left.  The driver reported that the passenger had
>>> >>> > left the bus because of the dog which was a baldfaced lie.  The
>>> >>> > driver then said that the company was sending another bus to
>>> >>> > take them home.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > This all went on for some time when the driver closed the doors
>>> >>> > so that
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > we
>>> >>> > could no longer talk to Chris and Marvelena, turned out the
>>> >>> > lights and left the bus.  Marvelena and Chris were left alone
>>> >>> > in a locked bus while the driver walked half a block away and
>>> >>> > spoke on her cell phone.
>>> >>> > Chris
>>> >>> > then called 911 and two Oakland policemen arrived shortly there
>>> >>> > after.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > One of the police asked my friend and I what was happening.  I
>>> >>> > explained the situation.  The policeman said something to the
>>> >>> > effect that it depended on the bus company's policy.  I said
>>> >>> > that was nonsense.
>>> >>> > That
>>> >>> > it
>>> >>> > had nothing to do with the bus company, it was a federal law
>>> >>> > called the ADA.  Marvelena and her dog had the same right of
>>> >>> > access to public places as Marvelena did on her own.  He seemed
>>> >>> > unaware of the law.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Finally, after the police arrived, another bus arrived to take
>>> >>> > them home.
>>> >>> > The altercation took about an hour and involved the waste of
>>> >>> > two bus drivers' time as well as that of two Oakland police
>>> >>> > personnel.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Questions that arise:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >  1.. Why when so many people with disabilities are using
>>> >>> > service animals does a company whose sole clientele are people
>>> >>> > with disabilities hire a driver who will not drive a bus with a
>>> >>> > dog on it?
>>> >>> >  2.. If the company feels compelled to hire folks who are
>>> >>> > afraid of dogs, why do they not routinely ask passengers if
>>> >>> > they are traveling with service animals so that they can send a
>>> >>> > not-afraid driver?
>>> >>> >  3.. Why were the driver and the dispatcher not trained by the
>>> >>> > company to know the laws about access and seeing eye dogs?
>>> >>> >  4.. Why was the driver not trained in basic courtesy?  She
>>> >>> > routinely yelled at us, slammed doors and at one point told me
>>> >>> > to "move him."
>>> >>> > She
>>> >>> > was referring to Chris.  I explained that he was a person and
>>> >>> > he moved himself, I did not move him.
>>> >>> >  5.. Why are the Oakland Police not trained in the fundamentals
>>> >>> > of ADA access laws?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Issues to note:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >  1.. Darla was wearing a regulation Seeing Eye harness, did not
>>> >>> > make any noise, did not show any aggression despite the
>>> >>> > shouting of the driver and lay on the floor of the bus near
>>> >>> > Marvelena's feet the entire time.
>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >>> > Nfbc-info mailing list
>>> >>> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>> >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> >>> > info for
>>> >>> > Nfbc-info:
>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/ckru
>>> >>> > gman%40sbcglobal.net
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >ar
>>> >ar _______________________________________________
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>>> >ar
>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/daydreami
>>> >ngncolor%40gmail.com
>>> >ar
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>> > b%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Darian Smith
>>> Skype: The_Bl_Truth
>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com The National Federation of
>>> the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher recruitment campaign to
>>> help attract energetic and passionate individuals into the field of
>>> blindness education, and we need your
>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>>
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>>
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