[Nfbc-info] paratransit regulations
Charles Krugman
ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Mon Apr 4 14:11:46 UTC 2016
The interesting thing here in Fresno is that I have been offered paratransit
services if I have to go to locations where it is difficult or unsafe to
use fixed route services. Examples of difficult or unsafe would be areas
where fixed route service stops where there is no adequate side walk or path
or where there are inadequate traffic signals where it would make it
difficult for a blind person to cross an intersection safely. We also have
some areas where the fixed route service hasn't caught up with development
so there is no service within a mile of certain shopping centers or business
areas. This is a problem in some outlying areas of the city. Some of the
large law firms have moved in to an area such as this and the only way that
I could get to these firms If I were employed by them would be by using
paratransit or private vehicle. I have not taken them up on this offer yet
but might consider it. I was told by one of their supervisors that they have
to offer this service.
Chuck P.S. note how I changed the digest format subject line back to the
original so that the thread is maintained.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Russak via Nfbc-info
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 2:31 PM
To: nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
Cc: Dennis Russak
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Nfbc-info Digest, Vol 130, Issue 29
I'd like to publicly compliment State President Mary Willows on her
comments insofar as Paratransit is concerned.
First of all, though, I'm not sure of all the rules and regulations
regarding Paratransit here in Sacramento, since I do not use it. I strongly
believe not only Mary's, but also the National Federation of the Blind way,
which says that if Blind people can use fixed-route Transit, such as bus,
light rail, subway, for example, they shouldn't need to use Paratransit.
Trouble is, if you live a long, long walk from your nearest bus or other
mass transit boarding area or stop, you sometimes may just have to. I also
include those who may be able to use fixed-route, but may not always have
the physical stamena to walk these sometimes long, long distances to their
fixed-route transit pickup.
Finally, as far as rules are concerned, I think Sacramento still has a
one-hour window insofar as pickup is concerned. Also, not only does it cost
$5 to ride this service, one of if not the highest in the United States. but
as of July 1st, 2016, the fare is going up to $5.50, a 10 percent increase,
which was originally supposed to go up to 20 percent.
I haven't heard Mary's argument about Paratransit vs. Fixed-route in a
long time. It is refreshing to hear this spoken again. Good job, Mary!
----- Original Message -----
From: nfbc-info-request at nfbnet.org
To: nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 5:01 am
Subject: Nfbc-info Digest, Vol 130, Issue 29
>
>
> Send Nfbc-info mailing list submissions to
> nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> nfbc-info-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nfbc-info-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Nfbc-info digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Paratransit regulations (Mary Willows)
> 2. Re: Paratransit regulations (Brian Buhrow)
> 3. Re: Paratransit regulations (Michael Hingson)
> 4. Re: Paratransit regulations (Brian Buhrow)
> 5. Re: Paratransit regulations (Michael Hingson)
> 6. Re: Paratransit regulations (Lisa Irving)
> 7. Re: Paratransit regulations (Lisa Irving)
> 8. California court grants judgment for blind plaintiff in web
> accessibility case (Charles Krugman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 15:22:05 com0700
> From: "Mary Willows" <mwillows at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'Ationfb of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <009201d18a09$6e5de100$4b19a300$@sbcglobal.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=by us-ascii"
>
> I believe all the ADA says is that alternative transportation must be
> offered during the same time the fixed route buses are running. The
> Department of Transportation oversees the ADA regulations but your local
> bus
> company contracts with a third party to offer para transit services. So
> DOT
> says there must be an alternative service and then the Livermore Amidor
> Valley Transit Authority contracts with MV to provide that service. In
> fact, technically, blind people should not be using para transit at all.
> So
> if they are allowing you on the bus, be greatful. Our contract says that
> you cannot live within 2 blocks of a fixed route bus stop. Blindness is
> not
> really a reason to be picked up door to door. Para transit was intended
> for
> wheelchair people and other severe disabilities. If you are just blind
> and
> your legs work to walk and you have the cognative ability to get on a bus
> and pay your way, you are really not supposed to be using para transit.
> This is a perfect example of where you have to decide if you are vanilla
> or
> chocolate. You can't have it both ways. That is to say, wanting
> preferential treatment on the one hand and then wanting to be viewed as an
> independent disabled adult on the other hand.
>
> This ought to spark some lively discussion. Don't you think?
> This is the perfect time for the San Diego Chapter members to try and get
> on
> the advisory committee for your transit system. Ask Dennis Russak. He
> knows all about the ADA service in Sacramento. He is Mr. Transportation.
> Jim served on our local para transit advisory committee for many, many
> years. The really funny thing is that the members were quite often late
> for
> the meeting because they relied on para transit to get them there. It was
> perfect. Management saw first hand how inefficient the service was.
>
> It would be very interesting to see what the listers say about this topic.
> It's a button pusher.
>
> comMary Willows
> The National Federation of the blind knows that blindness is not the
> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the
> expectations of blind people because low expectations create obstacles
> between blind people and our dreams.
> You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
>
> National Federation of the Blind of California (NFBC)
> 3934 Kern Court
> Pleasanton, CA 94588
> 925-462-8575
>
> Thank you,
> Mary Willows, President NFBC
> mwillows at sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Clark,
> Ted A at DOT via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:59 AM
> To: NFB of California List
> Cc: Clark, Ted A at DOT
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> It is my understanding that it will vary from location to location on the
> window time. And as far as I am aware there are no penalties against
> paratransit if they are not with inside the window.
> Contact your local paratransit and ask them to see if they have a guide
> spelling out the commuters rights
>
>
>
> Ted Clark
> EEO/Disability Analyst
> Equal Employment Opportunity Program (EEOP)
> 1820 Alhambra Blvd, MS 92
> Sacramento, CA 95816
> Office (916) 227-7518,
> Fax (916) 227-5199
> TTY 711
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lisa
> Irving via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 5:46 PM
> To: NFB of California List
> Cc: Lisa Irving
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> I would like to direct this topic to Mike Tim Ted and all other
> knowledgeable individuals who might sit on committees or work with
> entities
> overseeing Paratransit. As you can see from Mary's response and for my
> information there a different standards for for Paratransit providers that
> is, there seems to be no consistency with the allowed window or actual
> consequences to the Paratransit provider. On one hand, according to Mary,
> her paratransit service provider gives a free ride if the driver is
> outside
> of his or her window. On the other hand, down here in San Diego no free
> rides are given unless the driver is an hour late. Go figure they have a
> 20
> minute window but there appear to be no consequences until the drivers an
> hour late where is there the incentive to be on time?
>
> I'm prior occasions I have read some of the Paratransit regulations that
> is
> why I'm asking folks on the listserv about the regulations because they
> are
> not crystal-clear and there appeared to be different standards from
> provider
> to provider. What does California law say? The 88 appears to be somewhat
> ambiguous to perhaps I'm mistaken
>
> On a similar thread, at what point or Paratransit providers discriminating
> against the general population of Paratransit users when the bulk of
> subscription rides are assigned to one specific population within the
> disability community?
>
> Respectfully,
> Lisa Irving
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Mary Willows via Nfbc-info
> <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > You can google the regulations for your service. Each one is a little
> > different. Up here (Tri Valley) it is 15 minutes either side of your
> > pick up time. If they miss that half hour your next ride is free.
> > However, East Bay para transit does not offer that.
> > MW
> >
> > The National Federation of the blind knows that blindness is not the
> > characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> > the expectations of blind people because low expectations create
> > obstacles between blind people and our dreams.
> > You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
> >
> > National Federation of the Blind of California (NFBC)
> > 3934 Kern Court
> > Pleasanton, CA 94588
> > 925-462-8575
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Mary Willows, President NFBC
> > mwillows at sbcglobal.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Lisa Irving via Nfbc-info
> > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 7:44 AM
> > To: NFB LIST SERVE
> > Cc: Lisa Irving
> > Subject: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> >
> > I have a question about Paratransit regulations. At what point are
> > there consequences for Paratransit providers when they are outside of
> > their window? San Diego Paratransit has a 20 minute window.
> >
> > Best,
> > Lisa Irving
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Nfbc-info:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/mwillows%40sbcglobal.
> > net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/peacefulwoman89
> > %40cox.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/ted.clark%40dot.ca.go
> v
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/mwillows%40sbcglobal.
> net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:40:59 com0700
> From: Brian Buhrow <buhrow at nfbcal.org>
> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Mary Willows <mwillows at sbcglobal.net>, buhrow at nfbcal.org
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <201603292340.u2TNex8x018044 at lothlorien.nfbcal.org>
>
> Hello. Mary's right. this is a real button pusher. And, I'm on the
> fence about whether blind folks should be using para transit. I think,
> "it
> depends". In Los Angeles, and, I imagine, San Diego, the challenge for
> using fixed route service is the distance between where you are, home, and
> where you want to be. With fixed route service, you typically have to get
> on a bus, go to a spot, get off, wait for another bus, go to another spot,
> get off, wait for another bus, get off and walk to your destination. Each
> bus transition, in my experience, adds about an hour to your commute. In
> LA
> and San Diego Counties, where the counties are large, there is a huge
> efficiency to be gained by stepping into a para transit car and being
> driven directly, more or less, to your desired destination. As an
> example,
> if I wanted to travel from my home in Los Angeles in the South Bay, to my
> friends in Northridge, if I took fixed route transit, the one-way commute
> would take 3 hours. If I took para transit, the commute would take
> between
> 40 minutes and 1.5 hours, depending on traffic and how many other stops
> there were to be made. With a round trip time of 6 hours on fixed route
> transit, I'd be hard pressed to argue that a blind user should be forced
> to
> use para transit.
>
> For blind folks with jobs, I'd argue that as much as possible, they
> should use cabs, Uber or some other form of private transportation if
> possible to get to work. As Mary stated, Para transit is notoriously
> unpredictable and you don't want to lose your job because the para transit
> driver got lost, was late or otherwise failed to deliver you to yor work
> in
> a timely manner. In some cases, you may have to move to accommodate your
> job so as to minimize the commute.
>
> In the Bay Area in Northern California, para transit doesn't work as
> well because para transit is restricted to intra-county trips in most
> cases
> and counties are small enough in the Bay Area that you're always crossing
> county lines to get from one place to another. Fortunately, the Bay Area
> public transportation network is pretty replete with interconnected
> trains,
> BART and express busses so that, with a little planning, fixed route
> transit can be a bit more efficient.
>
> Owning and operating a private car is expensive, but it's still
> cheaper than using cabs or a ride sharing service on a daily basis. What
> I
> wish is that we could figure out a way to provide a ride sharing service,
> like Uber or Lyft, that could be used on a daily basis for about the same
> monthly cost as operating a private car. I thought Uber held that promise
> when it began, but I fear that it has become too focused on replicating
> the
> service local cabs provide, rather than extending the transportation for
> hire paradigm to include longer trips.
>
> In conclusion, my observation is that para transit is useful as a
> periodic transportation crutch which can be used to fill in for gaps in
> availability of transport. However, for commuting to a job or other
> obligation, I think it best to search for alternatives to para transit as
> soon as the parameters of the regular commute are well understood. For
> better or worse, solving transportation issues are the province of the
> blind, and the employed blind better figure out how to do it with a
> minimum
> of inconvenience and/or trouble for their employers. Para transit can
> help
> with that, and I'm glad it's available as an option, but I don't think it
> should be the final solution, or, for that matter, the primary solution.
> I
> know folks who disagree with that notion and use para transit as their
> daily commute to work. And, there are times, when they were incredibly
> late to work. Whether that tardiness adversely affected their performance
> reviews at their jobs is hard to know for sure, but I venture to say, it
> did.
>
> Finally, just for the record, I've been fortunate to hold jobs in my
> career which haven't required daily lengthy commutes on public
> transportation. That has been partly through luck and design. I know
> others might not have that option, so might have to make diferent choices.
> The point I want to leave you with, however, is the following. My career
> has now, astonishingly, spanned more than 20 years. During that time,
> I've
> had to find a number of solutions to the transportation problem for
> various
> jobs and personal fulfillment. In that same time frame, the landscape of
> public transportation, including para transit, has changed significantly.
> The best advice I can offer for young folks who are learning the job and
> transportation ropes is to learn what transportation resources are
> available around you, including the use of van pools, private trades of
> rides for other things from friends and colleagues, and, of course
> publically available options. Then, use what's most convenient and least
> costly, remembering to factor in the personal cost of asking for favors or
> thinking of the convenience of others when making that calculation.
> Also, be flexible. Remember what worked 5 years ago might not work today
> and what works today might not work in 5 years. And, finally, as I
> mentioned earlier, don't make your transportation issues other people's
> problem.
>
>
> comthanks
> comBrian
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:44:31 com0700
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'Ationfb of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <001801d18a14$f1121c50$d33654f0$@michaelhingson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=by us-ascii"
>
> Lisa,
>
> As Ted said the regulations do vary from place to place. The ADA created
> the
> concept for para transit. The Department of Transportation then put in
> place
> the rules and regulations agencies are required to follow in order to
> receive federal funding which makes up most of the money used to pay for
> rides.
>
> To my knowledge the federal regs do not go down to the detail of dealing
> with windows and penalties. I also am not aware of any California statutes
> that go further in this area then the fed.
>
> Your point about addressing one specific population over others is an
> interesting one. When I chaired the board of Whistlestop, the Marin County
> para transit agency, we did provide most of the transportation for persons
> with medical appointments. However, their rides were not given to the
> exclusion of other people. The agency did have contracts to provide
> medical
> transportation services, but we were obligated to provide all para transit
> rides as specified by our contract. If you feel you are facing
> discrimination you could file a complaint with the Justice Department. I
> hope this helps.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lisa
> Irving via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 5:46 PM
> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Lisa Irving <peacefulwoman89 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> I would like to direct this topic to Mike Tim Ted and all other
> knowledgeable individuals who might sit on committees or work with
> entities
> overseeing Paratransit. As you can see from Mary's response and for my
> information there a different standards for for Paratransit providers that
> is, there seems to be no consistency with the allowed window or actual
> consequences to the Paratransit provider. On one hand, according to Mary,
> her paratransit service provider gives a free ride if the driver is
> outside
> of his or her window. On the other hand, down here in San Diego no free
> rides are given unless the driver is an hour late. Go figure they have a
> 20
> minute window but there appear to be no consequences until the drivers an
> hour late where is there the incentive to be on time?
>
> I'm prior occasions I have read some of the Paratransit regulations that
> is
> why I'm asking folks on the listserv about the regulations because they
> are
> not crystal-clear and there appeared to be different standards from
> provider
> to provider. What does California law say? The 88 appears to be somewhat
> ambiguous to perhaps I'm mistaken
>
> On a similar thread, at what point or Paratransit providers discriminating
> against the general population of Paratransit users when the bulk of
> subscription rides are assigned to one specific population within the
> disability community?
>
> Respectfully,
> Lisa Irving
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Mary Willows via Nfbc-info
> <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > You can google the regulations for your service. Each one is a little
> > different. Up here (Tri Valley) it is 15 minutes either side of your
> > pick up time. If they miss that half hour your next ride is free.
> > However, East Bay para transit does not offer that.
> > MW
> >
> > The National Federation of the blind knows that blindness is not the
> > characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> > the expectations of blind people because low expectations create
> > obstacles between blind people and our dreams.
> > You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
> >
> > National Federation of the Blind of California (NFBC)
> > 3934 Kern Court
> > Pleasanton, CA 94588
> > 925-462-8575
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Mary Willows, President NFBC
> > mwillows at sbcglobal.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Lisa Irving via Nfbc-info
> > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 7:44 AM
> > To: NFB LIST SERVE
> > Cc: Lisa Irving
> > Subject: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> >
> > I have a question about Paratransit regulations. At what point are
> > there consequences for Paratransit providers when they are outside of
> > their window? San Diego Paratransit has a 20 minute window.
> >
> > Best,
> > Lisa Irving
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Nfbc-info:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/mwillows%40sbcglobal.
> > net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/peacefulwoman89
> > %40cox.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhingson
> ._com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:35:15 com0700
> From: Brian Buhrow <buhrow at nfbcal.org>
> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: buhrow at nfbcal.org
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <201603300035.u2U0ZFTo029039 at lothlorien.nfbcal.org>
>
> Hello One minor correction to my previous post. I said the
> following:
>
> Were . . . ]
> if I wanted to travel from my home in Los Angeles in the South Bay, to my
> friends in Northridge, if I took fixed route transit, the one-way commute
> would take 3 hours. If I took para transit, the commute would take
> between
> 40 minutes and 1.5 hours, depending on traffic and how many other stops
> there were to be made. With a round trip time of 6 hours on fixed route
> transit, I'd be hard pressed to argue that a blind user should be forced
> to
> use para transit.
> Were . . .]
>
> I meant to say that I'd be hard pressed to argue that a blind user should
> be forced to use fixed route transit.
>
> comthanks
> comBrian
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:20:42 com0700
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'Ationfb of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Brian Buhrow'" <buhrow at nfbcal.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <001c01d18a22$60d359c0$227a0d40$@michaelhingson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=by iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks Brian for the clarification. I agree that this subject is a
> button-pusher, but you expressed my feelings quite well. I think it is
> unrealistic to say that blind people should not use para transit simply
> because they can use their two legs to walk to a bus. Para transit was
> created to be kind of an equalizer for those who cannot easily get to fix
> route buses OR who cannot drive or have constant or good access to
> automobiles. Blind people were definitely part of the class intended to
> access para transit, but we should look at whether it is the best solution
> for us depend on the situation.
> When I worked in Marin I used para transit daily since it got me to my job
> in less than 20 minutes. The nearest bus stop was three miles away. Karen
> could not drive me to work daily.
> I believe the choice to use para transit is the same one Dr. Jernigan
> talked
> about when he discussed using a sighted guide. It is a personal choice AND
> it is also a matter of what is the best choice at the time.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
> "Speaking with Vision"
> Michael Hingson, President
> (415) 827-4084
> info at michaelhingson.com
> To order Michael Hingson's new book, Running With Roselle, and check on
> Michael Hingson's speaking availability for your next event please visit:
> www.michaelhingson.com
> his
> To purchase your own portrait of Roselle painted by the world's foremost
> animal artist, Ron Burns, please visit http://www.ronburns.com/roselle
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brian
> Buhrow via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 5:35 PM
> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Brian Buhrow <buhrow at nfbcal.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> Hello One minor correction to my previous post. I said the
> following:
>
> Were . . . ]
> if I wanted to travel from my home in Los Angeles in the South Bay, to my
> friends in Northridge, if I took fixed route transit, the one-way commute
> would take 3 hours. If I took para transit, the commute would take
> between
> 40 minutes and 1.5 hours, depending on traffic and how many other stops
> there were to be made. With a round trip time of 6 hours on fixed route
> transit, I'd be hard pressed to argue that a blind user should be forced
> to
> use para transit.
> Were . . .]
>
> I meant to say that I'd be hard pressed to argue that a blind user should
> be
> forced to use fixed route transit.
>
> comthanks
> comBrian
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhingson
> ._com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 22:40:45 com0700
> From: "Lisa Irving" <peacefulwoman89 at cox.net>
> To: "'Ationfb of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <002501d18a46$b4f628b0$1ee27a10$@cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=by us-ascii"
>
> Mike and all others
>
> First, in some respects, my life is better because para transit is just
> one
> more option that I have. As for "windows" and penalties, I miss the point
> of
> having a "window" if there's consequence for being outside of the window.
> In
> other words, why have a rule if there's no point to follow it. Make sense?
> As for favoritismeawell, a while back the Regional Center threatened to
> file
> a class-action suit against San Diego MTS and, I think it was Laidlaw at
> the
> time. Their cliennts were being taken advantage of because some riders had
> no way to communicate how long they had been kept on para transit. The
> class-action suit was dropped... one of the concessions was for Regional
> Center to receive more than 50% of the subscription rides. Many of the
> regional center clients reside in group homes/board and care homes.
> Clusters
> of clients are picked up; at the same time; or close to that, on a daily
> basis. Fast-forward. Instead of scheduleing the "Extra Board drivers" to
> drive vans sitting in the yard, many of us leave at ungodly hours in the
> morning or wait crazy long periods of time later in the day because
> subscription riders/ regional enter, monopolizes the availability of the
> ride service. Make some sense?
>
> Lisa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> Hingson via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 4:45 PM
> To: 'Ationfb of California List' <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Michael Hingson <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> Lisa,
>
> As Ted said the regulations do vary from place to place. The ADA created
> the
> concept for para transit. The Department of Transportation then put in
> place
> the rules and regulations agencies are required to follow in order to
> receive federal funding which makes up most of the money used to pay for
> rides.
>
> To my knowledge the federal regs do not go down to the detail of dealing
> with windows and penalties. I also am not aware of any California statutes
> that go further in this area then the fed.
>
> Your point about addressing one specific population over others is an
> interesting one. When I chaired the board of Whistlestop, the Marin County
> para transit agency, we did provide most of the transportation for persons
> with medical appointments. However, their rides were not given to the
> exclusion of other people. The agency did have contracts to provide
> medical
> transportation services, but we were obligated to provide all para transit
> rides as specified by our contract. If you feel you are facing
> discrimination you could file a complaint with the Justice Department. I
> hope this helps.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lisa
> Irving via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 5:46 PM
> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Lisa Irving <peacefulwoman89 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> I would like to direct this topic to Mike Tim Ted and all other
> knowledgeable individuals who might sit on committees or work with
> entities
> overseeing Paratransit. As you can see from Mary's response and for my
> information there a different standards for for Paratransit providers that
> is, there seems to be no consistency with the allowed window or actual
> consequences to the Paratransit provider. On one hand, according to Mary,
> her paratransit service provider gives a free ride if the driver is
> outside
> of his or her window. On the other hand, down here in San Diego no free
> rides are given unless the driver is an hour late. Go figure they have a
> 20
> minute window but there appear to be no consequences until the drivers an
> hour late where is there the incentive to be on time?
>
> I'm prior occasions I have read some of the Paratransit regulations that
> is
> why I'm asking folks on the listserv about the regulations because they
> are
> not crystal-clear and there appeared to be different standards from
> provider
> to provider. What does California law say? The 88 appears to be somewhat
> ambiguous to perhaps I'm mistaken
>
> On a similar thread, at what point or Paratransit providers discriminating
> against the general population of Paratransit users when the bulk of
> subscription rides are assigned to one specific population within the
> disability community?
>
> Respectfully,
> Lisa Irving
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Mary Willows via Nfbc-info
> <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > You can google the regulations for your service. Each one is a little
> > different. Up here (Tri Valley) it is 15 minutes either side of your
> > pick up time. If they miss that half hour your next ride is free.
> > However, East Bay para transit does not offer that.
> > MW
> >
> > The National Federation of the blind knows that blindness is not the
> > characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> > the expectations of blind people because low expectations create
> > obstacles between blind people and our dreams.
> > You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
> >
> > National Federation of the Blind of California (NFBC)
> > 3934 Kern Court
> > Pleasanton, CA 94588
> > 925-462-8575
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Mary Willows, President NFBC
> > mwillows at sbcglobal.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Lisa Irving via Nfbc-info
> > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 7:44 AM
> > To: NFB LIST SERVE
> > Cc: Lisa Irving
> > Subject: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> >
> > I have a question about Paratransit regulations. At what point are
> > there consequences for Paratransit providers when they are outside of
> > their window? San Diego Paratransit has a 20 minute window.
> >
> > Best,
> > Lisa Irving
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Nfbc-info:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/mwillows%40sbcglobal.
> > net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/peacefulwoman89
> > %40cox.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhingson
> ._com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/peacefulwoman89%40cox
> ._net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 22:43:53 com0700
> From: "Lisa Irving" <peacefulwoman89 at cox.net>
> To: "'Ationfb of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <002701d18a47$24c16420$6e442c60$@cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=by us-ascii"
>
> Who on this list pays for a driver? You're fortunate to have the funds to
> make that choice. I consider myself fortunate enough to pay a driver;
> sometimes Uber, sometimes a friend in need of extra income, and sometimes
> para transit. The local center for the blind is one of a number of
> agencies
> that can certify the need for para transit. I like knowing that I have
> almost as many transportation options as the next guy down the street.
> Lucky
> for us we live in a region where we have so many choices.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary
> Willows via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 3:22 PM
> To: 'Ationfb of California List' <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Mary Willows <mwillows at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> I believe all the ADA says is that alternative transportation must be
> offered during the same time the fixed route buses are running. The
> Department of Transportation oversees the ADA regulations but your local
> bus
> company contracts with a third party to offer para transit services. So
> DOT
> says there must be an alternative service and then the Livermore Amidor
> Valley Transit Authority contracts with MV to provide that service. In
> fact, technically, blind people should not be using para transit at all.
> So
> if they are allowing you on the bus, be greatful. Our contract says that
> you cannot live within 2 blocks of a fixed route bus stop. Blindness is
> not
> really a reason to be picked up door to door. Para transit was intended
> for
> wheelchair people and other severe disabilities. If you are just blind
> and
> your legs work to walk and you have the cognative ability to get on a bus
> and pay your way, you are really not supposed to be using para transit.
> This is a perfect example of where you have to decide if you are vanilla
> or
> chocolate. You can't have it both ways. That is to say, wanting
> preferential treatment on the one hand and then wanting to be viewed as an
> independent disabled adult on the other hand.
>
> This ought to spark some lively discussion. Don't you think?
> This is the perfect time for the San Diego Chapter members to try and get
> on
> the advisory committee for your transit system. Ask Dennis Russak. He
> knows all about the ADA service in Sacramento. He is Mr. Transportation.
> Jim served on our local para transit advisory committee for many, many
> years. The really funny thing is that the members were quite often late
> for
> the meeting because they relied on para transit to get them there. It was
> perfect. Management saw first hand how inefficient the service was.
>
> It would be very interesting to see what the listers say about this topic.
> It's a button pusher.
>
> comMary Willows
> The National Federation of the blind knows that blindness is not the
> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the
> expectations of blind people because low expectations create obstacles
> between blind people and our dreams.
> You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
>
> National Federation of the Blind of California (NFBC)
> 3934 Kern Court
> Pleasanton, CA 94588
> 925-462-8575
>
> Thank you,
> Mary Willows, President NFBC
> mwillows at sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Clark,
> Ted A at DOT via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:59 AM
> To: NFB of California List
> Cc: Clark, Ted A at DOT
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> It is my understanding that it will vary from location to location on the
> window time. And as far as I am aware there are no penalties against
> paratransit if they are not with inside the window.
> Contact your local paratransit and ask them to see if they have a guide
> spelling out the commuters rights
>
>
>
> Ted Clark
> EEO/Disability Analyst
> Equal Employment Opportunity Program (EEOP)
> 1820 Alhambra Blvd, MS 92
> Sacramento, CA 95816
> Office (916) 227-7518,
> Fax (916) 227-5199
> TTY 711
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lisa
> Irving via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 5:46 PM
> To: NFB of California List
> Cc: Lisa Irving
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> I would like to direct this topic to Mike Tim Ted and all other
> knowledgeable individuals who might sit on committees or work with
> entities
> overseeing Paratransit. As you can see from Mary's response and for my
> information there a different standards for for Paratransit providers that
> is, there seems to be no consistency with the allowed window or actual
> consequences to the Paratransit provider. On one hand, according to Mary,
> her paratransit service provider gives a free ride if the driver is
> outside
> of his or her window. On the other hand, down here in San Diego no free
> rides are given unless the driver is an hour late. Go figure they have a
> 20
> minute window but there appear to be no consequences until the drivers an
> hour late where is there the incentive to be on time?
>
> I'm prior occasions I have read some of the Paratransit regulations that
> is
> why I'm asking folks on the listserv about the regulations because they
> are
> not crystal-clear and there appeared to be different standards from
> provider
> to provider. What does California law say? The 88 appears to be somewhat
> ambiguous to perhaps I'm mistaken
>
> On a similar thread, at what point or Paratransit providers discriminating
> against the general population of Paratransit users when the bulk of
> subscription rides are assigned to one specific population within the
> disability community?
>
> Respectfully,
> Lisa Irving
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Mary Willows via Nfbc-info
> <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > You can google the regulations for your service. Each one is a little
> > different. Up here (Tri Valley) it is 15 minutes either side of your
> > pick up time. If they miss that half hour your next ride is free.
> > However, East Bay para transit does not offer that.
> > MW
> >
> > The National Federation of the blind knows that blindness is not the
> > characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> > the expectations of blind people because low expectations create
> > obstacles between blind people and our dreams.
> > You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
> >
> > National Federation of the Blind of California (NFBC)
> > 3934 Kern Court
> > Pleasanton, CA 94588
> > 925-462-8575
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Mary Willows, President NFBC
> > mwillows at sbcglobal.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Lisa Irving via Nfbc-info
> > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 7:44 AM
> > To: NFB LIST SERVE
> > Cc: Lisa Irving
> > Subject: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> >
> > I have a question about Paratransit regulations. At what point are
> > there consequences for Paratransit providers when they are outside of
> > their window? San Diego Paratransit has a 20 minute window.
> >
> > Best,
> > Lisa Irving
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Nfbc-info:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/mwillows%40sbcglobal.
> > net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/peacefulwoman89
> > %40cox.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/ted.clark%40dot.ca.go
> v
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/mwillows%40sbcglobal.
> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/peacefulwoman89%40cox
> ._net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 01:10:38 com0700
> From: "Charles Krugman" <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBC" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Nfbc-info] California court grants judgment for blind
> plaintiff in web accessibility case
> Message-ID: <56BEF4B55FFC4667B0E53CAD8FBB38F2 at Spike>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=by iso-8859-1"
>
> Judgment for Blind Plaintiff in Website Disability Case
>
>
>
> Judgment for Blind Plaintiff in Website Disability Case
>
>
>
> California court grants first-ever summary judgment in website access
> lawsuit
>
>
>
> 09:42 ET from
>
> Newport Trial Group
>
>
> SAN BERNARDINO, Calif., March 25, 2016 /PRNewswire/ — A California Judge
> has granted summary judgment to a visually-impaired plaintiff who was
> unable to
>
> access the website of luggage retailer Colorado Bag'n & Baggage.
>
>
>
> Plaintiff Edward Davis filed suit in 2015 (case #CIBDS1504682), claiming
> that he was unable to access the Colorado Bag'n & Baggage website because
> the content
>
> on the website was not accessible to blind individuals. Judge Brian F.
> Foster agreed and issued judgment in favor of Davis, ruling "Plaintiff
> presented
>
> sufficient evidence that he was denied full and equal enjoyment of the
> goods, services, privileges, and accommodations offered by Defendant
> because of
>
> his disability." The Judge also awarded Davis $4,000.00 in damages. The
> ruling, believed to be the first-ever summary judgment in favor of a
> visually-impaired
>
> Plaintiff claiming that a website violates the Americans with Disabilities
> Act, also entitles Davis to recover his attorneys' fees.
>
>
>
> Davis' attorney, Victoria Knowles of the Newport Trial Group, lauded the
> decision: "We are very grateful that the Court agreed that corporate
> websites must
>
> be accessible to individuals with disabilities. This ruling will have
> implications far and wide." Added Newport Trial Group's Managing Partner
> David
>
> Reid: "We are fortunate that we continue to do well by doing good."
>
>
>
> For more information:
>
> Katherine Kirshner
>
> 9497066464
>
> Email
>
> www.trialnewport.com
>
>
> http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/judgment-for-blind-plaintiff-in-website-disability-case-300241469.htmlNewport
> Trial Group logo
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Nfbc-info Digest, Vol 130, Issue 29
> ******************************************
_______________________________________________
Nfbc-info mailing list
Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Nfbc-info:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
More information about the NFBC-Info
mailing list