[nfbcs] Fwd: Happy Birthday Mr.Braille

slery slerythema at insightbb.com
Fri Jan 9 07:48:23 UTC 2009 

This goes back to my original post since that is what I clearly said and
emphasized that audio only did not make a person a second class citizen.

Sighted individuals that are illiterate can often be high functioning. The
stumble however, when the cues they have learned to associate with things
change. If they learn to pick out their shampoo in the store by the size and
color of the bottle, when the manufacturer changes their design, that person
is no longer able to shop for their own shampoo until they learn how to
associate it again.

I attended a presentation for blind people and the screenreader kept reading
a word as u sat o day. It wasn't until months later that I "saw" the word
and understood that it was actually U. S. A. Today.

Just something to think about.

I'm going to drop out of this conversation since I no longer have time spend
on this topic.

Cindy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Wunder
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:33 AM
> To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fwd: Happy Birthday Mr.Braille
> 
> 
> In some ways this discussion is unfortunate because we are 
> talking about definitions and connotations. Literate has a 
> specific meaning in many dictionaries and a more general one 
> in others, but to say that someone is illiterate connotes 
> inferiority. If I tell a man in a wheelchair he cannot walk 
> to the grocery store, my statement is true. If the 
> connotation is that he is confined to his house and he cannot 
> get to the grocery store or see to his own shopping, this is not true.
> 
> We have no business saying or believing that a person who 
> can't learn Braille because of diabetes is inferior. We have 
> no business saying or believing that a person who goes blind 
> later in life has something wrong with him because he lacks 
> the proficiency in Braille which some of us enjoy. Similarly, 
> we need to understand that many blind students have public 
> school placements where they have no teacher of Braille and 
> they will not learn it in the way many of us who are older 
> learned it as a matter of course.
> 
> At the same time, we should not refrane from saying that 
> Braille, like print, has tremendous value in physically 
> observing how things are written, in being able to follow an 
> outline, in effortlessly seeing the difference in the words 
> hear, here, their, there, wear, where, bare, bear, etc.
> 
> We have to get to the place where we can, without apology, 
> say that Braille is a skill blind people should have, without 
> implying to those who cannot or have not, that they are 
> somehow inferior or are to blame for some shortcoming in 
> themselves. We need to address the system which shortchanges 
> so many without making those who have been short-changed feel 
> they are at fault and that they have no alternatives. Mostly 
> there are always alternatives, but the more of these we make 
> available to our blind brothers and sisters, , the easier we 
> will find it to compete for available jobs and resources.
> 
> I doubt that anyone who uses the words literate or illiterate 
> really means one lacks the ability to communicate. What they 
> are trying to get at has more to do with whether people 
> understand the construction of language, and making the point 
> that the chances of successfully learning to do this is 
> increased with print or Braille and is made more difficult 
> using only audio for presentation. Technology changes things 
> at some level. I can dictate and 
> correctly write words whose spellings I cannot begin to 
> write, and similarly 
> I can hear and understand words I might not recognize were I 
> to see them 
> written letter for letter. Who could ever, using audio, come 
> up with the 
> spelling of ennui or detente? It is funny in hindsight how, 
> as a college 
> freshman, I took a course in educational psychology using two 
> different 
> audio textbooks, and believed we were studying two different 
> theorists, one 
> named Gonyea, and the other named gagney. The comparisons 
> were easy, but the 
> contrasts were more difficult.
> 
> As a final chuckle, think about the difference between the 
> meaning of the word ignorant and the connotation. The true 
> meaning says I do not know. The connotation says I am foolish 
> not to know or that learning is beyond me. The definition 
> alerts me to a gap in knowledge I can do something about. The 
> connotation says I am intellectually or culturally doomed.
> 
> 
> 
> Gary
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fwd: Happy Birthday 
> Mr.Braille!-$200discount onourBraille products
> 
> 
> > liz,
> >
> > what do you say to someone who can't read print due to 
> vision loss and 
> > can't read braille due to diabetes or a brain injury? Are 
> you going to 
> > be ignorant and tell them they are illiterate? Bryan Schulz
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net>
> > To: "NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:43 AM
> > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fwd: Happy Birthday Mr. Braille!-$200discount
> > onourBraille products
> >
> >
> >> Hi Chris. I do not know in which state you live, but most rehab 
> >> agencies are willing, as part of post-employment services, 
> to invest 
> >> in equipment. This is especially so if your jobs requires you to 
> >> sometimes work from home.
> >>
> >> Warmest regards,
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Chris Westbrook" <westbchris at gmail.com>
> >> To: "NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:01 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fwd: Happy Birthday Mr. Braille! -$200discount
> >> onourBraille products
> >>
> >>
> >>> As much as I like braille and am a proponent of it, I've always 
> >>> thought the argument below was not valid.  Why?  Because 
> braille is 
> >>> so much less available than print.  I think this is the 
> big elephant 
> >>> in the room that no one wants to talk about.  I would 
> love to have a 
> >>> braille display for home, but I just can't afford it.  I 
> can't gedt 
> >>> state help either because I am already employed.  I don't 
> understand 
> >>> why twenty years later braille displays are still just as 
> much out 
> >>> of reach of the average blind person as they were when they were 
> >>> first made.  Yes there is hard copy braille, but it is huge and 
> >>> bulky compared to print. Braille cannot really be 
> compared to print 
> >>> because it is so much more costly to produce on a mass scale.
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "slery" <slerythema at insightbb.com>
> >>> To: "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 2:34 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fwd: Happy Birthday Mr. Braille! - 
> $200discount
> >>> onourBraille products
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> One question, Dean.
> >>>>
> >>>> Can we tell public schools that they no longer need to waste a 
> >>>> teacher's time on reading because most of the kids have been 
> >>>> auditorilly reading for
> >>>> years by the time they get to school and that is 
> perfectly acceptable
> >>>> for
> >>>> them to succeed?
> >>>>
> >>>> Cindy
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> >>>>> On Behalf Of Dean Martineau
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:25 PM
> >>>>> To: 'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fwd: Happy Birthday Mr. Braille! - $200 
> >>>>> discount onourBraille products
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have to say that I agree with Everett, but at the 
> same time, the 
> >>>>> conversation isn't too useful and can take away from 
> the essential 
> >>>>> point.  I am a very literate person, using both Braille 
> and audio 
> >>>>> reading techniques quite effectively. Nobody will tell 
> me that I 
> >>>>> am not reading, processing information, when I read 
> auditorially.  
> >>>>> At the same time, the real point is that for a blind person to 
> >>>>> succeed in the world of work and independent living, 
> competency in 
> >>>>> Braille is somewhere between highly beneficial and 
> essential.  A 
> >>>>> blind person without high Braille competence has many more
> >>>>> opportunities than one who does not.  So yes, non-braille
> >>>>> readers can be literate, but the more Braille one has, 
> the better.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dean
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> >>>>> On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:36 AM
> >>>>> To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fwd: Happy Birthday Mr. Braille! - $200 
> >>>>> discount on ourBraille products
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Good afternoon Liz,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What does literacy mean to you?  I would say that the least 
> >>>>> important part of litercy is the medium by which the 
> symbols are 
> >>>>> acquired, but is the
> >>>>> synthesis of the symbols into meaningful propositions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In other words, literacy is about successful communication, not 
> >>>>> about the means of communication, be it dots, ink or sound.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Everett
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Liz Bottner" <liz.bottner at gmail.com>
> >>>>> To: "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:23 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fwd: Happy Birthday Mr. Braille! - $200
> >>>>> discount on
> >>>>> ourBraille products
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't mean to offend or start any major heated 
> discussion, but 
> >>>>> my own personal view is that if someone cannot read print and 
> >>>>> doesn't know Braille, then they are, by all means, illiterate. 
> >>>>> Just listening to audio or reading via a screenreader on the 
> >>>>> computer, in my view, isn't actually reading; that's 
> having things 
> >>>>> reed to you. I'd be interested in others' thoughts on 
> this matter.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just my thoughts, for what they're worth,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Liz
> >>>>>
> >>>>> email:
> >>>>> liz.bottner at gmail.com
> >>>>> Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com
> >>>>> Follow me on Twitter:
> >>>>> http://twitter.com/lizbot
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>> %40zufelt.ca
> >>>>
> >>>>
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