[nfbcs] Last Post on Editors
Mike Freeman
k7uij at panix.com
Sat Jan 17 08:43:26 UTC 2009
My kingdom for a version of TECO! (grin)
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>, "NFBCS" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>, "NFB-Web" <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>
Date: Friday, Jan 16, 2009 21:09:36
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Last Post on Editors
>
>
> Joe,
>
> It might be helpful to get a better picture of exactly what other problems you are having with JFW. It is unrealistic to
> expect CONTROL UP and CONTROL DOWN to work in all editors, even when those editors don't use those keys for
> the same thing. It also isn't realist to think that ALT LEFT and ALT Right will cause JFW to just know to speak the
> paragraph without a script. You couldn't, for example, assume that all Word keys would work in WordPerfect. The
> odds are that whichever editor you use, there will be some customizing that will need to be done to get JFW to work
> perfectly. You might ask about JFW scripters on GUI-Talk. Doug Lee who is subscribed might have some connections
> or ideas as well, and he is subscribed there. Your quote of my comment really is pretty accurate. You can't script
> everything you try to see if you like it. You have to learn what can likely be changed and what can't. If an editor
> supports paragraph navigation, it isn't real difficult to add a script to make it work. If a program doesn't close HTML tags
> as you would like, that is fairly serious. I thought UltraEdit did do that, but I did not use HTML very much so am not
> experienced. I know that NoteTab is pretty neat in the way that it adds opening and closing tags and puts the cursor
> between them.
>
> The key mapping dialog is a fairly common problem I am afraid. The reason is that when you are in the definition box
> and press TAB, it is assumed that is the key you wish to define. UltraEdit does have an option to exclude the TAB key
> from key mapping which should fix this, and you can usually get around this by using the mouse pointer or JAWS cursor.
> That's the kind of thing, though, that you could explore once you picked an editor. I believe UltraEdit also supports
> assigning keys in a file as well, allowing you to avoid the dialog altogether. Some of what is frustrating you is, I'm afraid, a
> fact of life with computers, and generally has an explanation. That doesn't mean I don't understand the frustration, I do
> very well.
>
> You said this was your last post on this. Well, I, for one, would very much like to hear more, at least on NFBCS, as to
> what you discover. Also, I would be glad to help if I can. I used a program under DOS called QEDIT, and it took years
> before I found anything within Windows with which I was comfortable. Eventually, though, I found both NoteTab Pro
> and UltraEdit to be pretty close and in some ways more powerful, so there is hope, and you might be the guy to find
> something we haven't found.
>
> Hang in there, joe!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:56:39 com0500, Joe Orozco wrote:
>
> >Hello all,
>
> >For those of you on NFBCS, I promise this is my last post on editors. I'm
> >copying NFB-Web in hopes that my post, which is half report and half a call
> >for help, will widen the number of people who could potentially lend a hand
> >or make referrals.
>
> >Over the past week I've evaluated half a dozen text editors in search of
> >something that will make my job a little less monotonous. I'm a grants
> >manager for a nonprofit here in DC. In addition to maneuvering grant
> >programs from inception through closeout, it iss my responsibility to design
> >the online application in a way that is as accessible as it is visually
> >appealing. The applications are not of the government length, but they are
> >sufficiently long enough to make each application an arduous task. Anyway,
> >our department has now bought a domain in hopes of creating an independent
> >portal for applicants, grantees and alumns to apply, check status and
> >actively communicate.
>
> >I got FrontPage 2003 but was told the program produced negative, bloated
> >results. I now have DreamWeaver MX but I am still making my way through the
> >manual to understand its functionality. Ultimately I may use DreamWeaver to
> >manage the large site that is coming, but I feel much more comfortable
> >knowing exactly what string of code goes where. Actually, DreamWeaver
> >intimidates the hell out of me.
>
> >I need a program that will:
>
> >* provide spellchecking functionality;
>
> >* launch browser view without creating a new file first;
>
> >* provide instant editing capability via FTP;
>
> >* manipulate multiple files in a project; and
>
> >* navigate well with JAWS 10.
>
> >This last should be a given, but my overriding problem is that JAWS is not
> >adequately navigating text the way it's supposed to. Were my needs solely
> >about web development, this would not be a problem, but these grant
> >applications also require a number of guides and tip sheets to be written.
> >Before I begin populating the document with code, I like to be able to look
> >at the clean copy of the file to adequately assess its written quality.
>
> >UltraEdit appears to be the most versatile package. There are different
> >environments for different types of users, from the basic Notepad
> >replacement to the technical writer and web developer. The menu structure
> >changes according to the person's needs, and moving from one environment to
> >the other is a simple progression of three keystrokes. Unfortunately, JAWS
> >does not automatically read paragraphs on its own. The Alt and Left and
> >Right arrow keys jump from section to section, and were this the only
> >problem, I could live with it. Yet, I have found that there are more than
> >several menus that are not accessible to JAWS 10. Key mapping is
> >unachievable, because landing on the field renders the screen reader
> >immovable. You have to try to back up into the field after selecting the
> >function you want from the other side. Plan on using the JAWS cursor to
> >make the process only slightly easier, and even after turning off the
> >program's Control and Up and Down features, JAWS 10 does not read the
> >paragraphs correctly. This was only one menu where I found accessibility
> >issues. Further, I did not find an auto-complete function for the web
> >developer environment. DreamWeaver, as enormous as it is, has the neat
> >ability to automatically close tags for you, something shared by the HTML-R
> >library in NoteTab Pro.
>
> >NoteTab Pro is one of the two programs I am leaning toward. The navigation
> >is probably worse than UltraEdit's, because NoteTab will just say "blank,
> >blank" when I try to use the traditional paragraph functions with Control Up
> >and Down arrows. It does, however, have Spellchecking functionality, and
> >although I have not attempted to use the FTP feature, it would allow me to
> >edit directly onto a remote server. NoteTab has a configuration file which
> >I have dumped into my JAWS settings, but I wonder if it is not working
> >because I only have a trial version of the software. I attempted to turn on
> >the accessibility mode using the command line, but I get an error alerting
> >me that "notetab.exe" is not a recognized internal function. NoteTab does
> >have the neat little feature of automatically closing tags and joining lines
> >on specified sections. As far as I can tell, there are clip libraries
> >people contribute to keep this program fresh between upgrades. These are
> >code snips that reduce time on projects.
>
> >The second program I'm leaning toward is EditPad Pro. It works beautifully
> >with JAWS as far as navigation. A few of the menus are not readily
> >accessible, but I have only begun toying with this program since this
> >afternoon. It feels the need to create a new file to view in a browser even
> >when the file type is set to HTML, but it does have a spellchecker and
> >project functionality just like NoteTab.
>
> >So, what it comes down to is that in EditPad Pro I found a superior text
> >editor. In NoteTab I may have found the best HTML editor. How in the world
> >could I go about merging them into the single perfect package? Buying both
> >is a waste of money. At fifty dollars, EditPad Pro seems like a bit much to
> >charge for a glorified Notepad substitute that is lacking in HTML resources.
> >Then again, at thirty dollars NoteTab is more or less in the same
> >neighborhood at the cost of glitches in my ability to navigate.
>
> >Over the past week I also tried Boxer Editor, Crimson Editor, Arachnophilia
> >and HTML Kit. Steve Jacobs suggested I find a good one and then force it to
> >work for me. Well, not his exact words, but same idea. Each of these
> >aforementioned packages were not accessible to me in some form or fashion.
> >The three listed above are among the best of their class, but there's a
> >combination of accessibility and feature sets that makes choosing difficult.
> >I guess I'm looking for a good Notepad replacement with just enough HTML
> >resources to make web site development slightly easier. UltraEdit has a
> >unique feature where you can copy and paste from one of nine or ten
> >different clipboards.
>
> >Okay, now that my rambling is done, here are my specific questions:
>
> >1. Is there a list-serve or web site where I can find scripting programmers
> >for JAWS who can help me figure out what's ailing my JAWS with NoteTab?
>
> >2. Are there any users of any of the three aforementioned programs who use
> >the package for both text editing and HTML coding? If so, what would you
> >suggest to go about configuring the package to work with JAWS?
>
> >3. What are the advantages of maintaining a text editor separate from an
> >HTML editor? I know ultimately it's a matter of personal choice, but my
> >conundrum between NoteTab and EditPad Pro makes me wonder if others have
> >balanced both to manage projects.
>
> >4. Is there a repository for blind web developers already in progress?
>
> >For your own knowledge, I am using Windows XP SP3 with JAWS 10.
>
> >If you can point me in the right direction or forward my post to someone who
> >can help, I would be most appreciative. And, I promisse to drop my stream
> >of editor-related messages after this point. You guys are the only active
> >lists of which I am aware of that can help, hence my constant harassment
> >over the past few days.
>
> >Sincerely,
>
> >Joe Orozco
>
> >by Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanitydd0-comJames M.
> >Barrie
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
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