[nfbcs] Last Post on Editors

Sat Jan 17 11:59:50 UTC 2009

Joe,

Since I have some vision, I'm not really a JAWS user; so I can't address
keystroke navigation. It sounds like your project is expected to expand to
an eventual "production" site. It bodes well for you to seriously consider
Dreamweaver. I've used it for years and like especially its "site
management". It easily allows you to package code (html, asp, css,etc.) and
documentation for a release. And, also to establish a test environment that
can be readily transported for a  release. As a project gets bigger, a
version control system that uses a library is eventually needed. Dreamweaver
gives you a little of that for one person.

Arnold

On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 3:43 AM, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:

> My kingdom for a version of TECO! (grin)
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> To: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>, "NFBCS" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>,
> "NFB-Web" <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Friday, Jan 16, 2009 21:09:36
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Last Post on Editors
>
> >
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > It might be helpful to get a better picture of exactly what other
> problems you are having with JFW.  It is unrealistic to
> > expect CONTROL UP and CONTROL DOWN to work in all editors, even when
> those editors don't use those keys for
> > the same thing.  It also isn't realist to think that ALT LEFT and ALT
> Right will cause JFW to just know to speak the
> > paragraph without a script.  You couldn't, for example, assume that all
> Word keys would work in WordPerfect.  The
> > odds are that whichever editor you use, there will be some customizing
> that will need to be done to get JFW to work
> > perfectly.  You might ask about JFW scripters on GUI-Talk.  Doug Lee who
> is subscribed might have some connections
> > or ideas as well, and he is subscribed there.  Your quote of my comment
> really is pretty accurate.  You can't script
> > everything you try to see if you like it.  You have to learn what can
> likely be changed and what can't.  If an editor
> > supports paragraph navigation, it isn't real difficult to add a script to
> make it work.  If a program doesn't close HTML tags
> > as you would like, that is fairly serious.  I thought UltraEdit did do
> that, but I did not use HTML very much so am not
> > experienced.  I know that NoteTab is pretty neat in the way that it adds
> opening and closing tags and puts the cursor
> > between them.
> >
> > The key mapping dialog is a fairly common problem I am afraid.  The
> reason is that when you are in the definition box
> > and press TAB, it is assumed that is the key you wish to define.
>  UltraEdit does have an option to exclude the TAB key
> > from key mapping which should fix this, and you can usually get around
> this by using the mouse pointer or JAWS cursor.
> > That's the kind of thing, though, that you could explore once you picked
> an editor.  I believe UltraEdit also supports
> > assigning keys in a file as well, allowing you to avoid the dialog
> altogether. Some of what is frustrating you is, I'm afraid, a
> > fact of life with computers, and generally has an explanation.  That
> doesn't mean I don't understand the frustration, I do
> > very well.
> >
> > You said this was your last post on this.  Well, I, for one, would very
> much like to hear more, at least on NFBCS, as to
> > what you discover.  Also, I would be glad to help if I can.  I used a
> program under DOS called QEDIT, and it took years
> > before I found anything within Windows with which I was comfortable.
>  Eventually, though, I found both NoteTab Pro
> > and UltraEdit to be pretty close and in some ways more powerful, so there
> is hope, and you might be the guy to find
> > something we haven't found.
> >
> > Hang in there, joe!
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Steve Jacobson
> >
> > On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:56:39 com0500, Joe Orozco wrote:
> >
> > >Hello all,
> >
> > >For those of you on NFBCS, I promise this is my last post on editors.
>  I'm
> > >copying NFB-Web in hopes that my post, which is half report and half a
> call
> > >for help, will widen the number of people who could potentially lend a
> hand
> > >or make referrals.
> >
> > >Over the past week I've evaluated half a dozen text editors in search of
> > >something that will make my job a little less monotonous.  I'm a grants
> > >manager for a nonprofit here in DC.  In addition to maneuvering grant
> > >programs from inception through closeout, it iss my responsibility to
> design
> > >the online application in a way that is as accessible as it is visually
> > >appealing.  The applications are not of the government length, but they
> are
> > >sufficiently long enough to make each application an arduous task.
>  Anyway,
> > >our department has now bought a domain in hopes of creating an
> independent
> > >portal for applicants, grantees and alumns to apply, check status and
> > >actively communicate.
> >
> > >I got FrontPage 2003 but was told the program produced negative, bloated
> > >results.  I now have DreamWeaver MX but I am still making my way through
> the
> > >manual to understand its functionality.  Ultimately I may use
> DreamWeaver to
> > >manage the large site that is coming, but I feel much more comfortable
> > >knowing exactly what string of code goes where.  Actually, DreamWeaver
> > >intimidates the hell out of me.
> >
> > >I need a program that will:
> >
> > >* provide spellchecking functionality;
> >
> > >* launch browser view without creating a new file first;
> >
> > >* provide instant editing capability via FTP;
> >
> > >* manipulate multiple files in a project; and
> >
> > >* navigate well with JAWS 10.
> >
> > >This last should be a given, but my overriding problem is that JAWS is
> not
> > >adequately navigating text the way it's supposed to.  Were my needs
> solely
> > >about web development, this would not be a problem, but these grant
> > >applications also require a number of guides and tip sheets to be
> written.
> > >Before I begin populating the document with code, I like to be able to
> look
> > >at the clean copy of the file to adequately assess its written quality.
> >
> > >UltraEdit appears to be the most versatile package.  There are different
> > >environments for different types of users, from the basic Notepad
> > >replacement to the technical writer and web developer.  The menu
> structure
> > >changes according to the person's needs, and moving from one environment
> to
> > >the other is a simple progression of three keystrokes.  Unfortunately,
> JAWS
> > >does not automatically read paragraphs on its own.  The Alt and Left and
> > >Right arrow keys jump from section to section, and were this the only
> > >problem, I could live with it.  Yet, I have found that there are more
> than
> > >several menus that are not accessible to JAWS 10.  Key mapping is
> > >unachievable, because landing on the field renders the screen reader
> > >immovable.  You have to try to back up into the field after selecting
> the
> > >function you want from the other side.  Plan on using the JAWS cursor to
> > >make the process only slightly easier, and even after turning off the
> > >program's Control and Up and Down features, JAWS 10 does not read the
> > >paragraphs correctly.  This was only one menu where I found
> accessibility
> > >issues.  Further, I did not find an auto-complete function for the web
> > >developer environment.  DreamWeaver, as enormous as it is, has the neat
> > >ability to automatically close tags for you, something shared by the
> HTML-R
> > >library in NoteTab Pro.
> >
> > >NoteTab Pro is one of the two programs I am leaning toward.  The
> navigation
> > >is probably worse than UltraEdit's, because NoteTab will just say
> "blank,
> > >blank" when I try to use the traditional paragraph functions with
> Control Up
> > >and Down arrows.  It does, however, have Spellchecking functionality,
> and
> > >although I have not attempted to use the FTP feature, it would allow me
> to
> > >edit directly onto a remote server.  NoteTab has a configuration file
> which
> > >I have dumped into my JAWS settings, but I wonder if it is not working
> > >because I only have a trial version of the software.  I attempted to
> turn on
> > >the accessibility mode using the command line, but I get an error
> alerting
> > >me that "notetab.exe" is not a recognized internal function.  NoteTab
> does
> > >have the neat little feature of automatically closing tags and joining
> lines
> > >on specified sections.  As far as I can tell, there are clip libraries
> > >people contribute to keep this program fresh between upgrades.  These
> are
> > >code snips that reduce time on projects.
> >
> > >The second program I'm leaning toward is EditPad Pro.  It works
> beautifully
> > >with JAWS as far as navigation.  A few of the menus are not readily
> > >accessible, but I have only begun toying with this program since this
> > >afternoon.  It feels the need to create a new file to view in a browser
> even
> > >when the file type is set to HTML, but it does have a spellchecker and
> > >project functionality just like NoteTab.
> >
> > >So, what it comes down to is that in EditPad Pro I found a superior text
> > >editor.  In NoteTab I may have found the best HTML editor.  How in the
> world
> > >could I go about merging them into the single perfect package?  Buying
> both
> > >is a waste of money.  At fifty dollars, EditPad Pro seems like a bit
> much to
> > >charge for a glorified Notepad substitute that is lacking in HTML
> resources.
> > >Then again, at thirty dollars NoteTab is more or less in the same
> > >neighborhood at the cost of glitches in my ability to navigate.
> >
> > >Over the past week I also tried Boxer Editor, Crimson Editor,
> Arachnophilia
> > >and HTML Kit.  Steve Jacobs suggested I find a good one and then force
> it to
> > >work for me.  Well, not his exact words, but same idea.  Each of these
> > >aforementioned packages were not accessible to me in some form or
> fashion.
> > >The three listed above are among the best of their class, but there's a
> > >combination of accessibility and feature sets that makes choosing
> difficult.
> > >I guess I'm looking for a good Notepad replacement with just enough HTML
> > >resources to make web site development slightly easier.  UltraEdit has a
> > >unique feature where you can copy and paste from one of nine or ten
> > >different clipboards.
> >
> > >Okay, now that my rambling is done, here are my specific questions:
> >
> > >1. Is there a list-serve or web site where I can find scripting
> programmers
> > >for JAWS who can help me figure out what's ailing my JAWS with NoteTab?
> >
> > >2. Are there any users of any of the three aforementioned programs who
> use
> > >the package for both text editing and HTML coding?  If so, what would
> you
> > >suggest to go about configuring the package to work with JAWS?
> >
> > >3. What are the advantages of maintaining a text editor separate from an
> > >HTML editor?  I know ultimately it's a matter of personal choice, but my
> > >conundrum between NoteTab and EditPad Pro makes me wonder if others have
> > >balanced both to manage projects.
> >
> > >4. Is there a repository for blind web developers already in progress?
> >
> > >For your own knowledge, I am using Windows XP SP3 with JAWS 10.
> >
> > >If you can point me in the right direction or forward my post to someone
> who
> > >can help, I would be most appreciative.  And, I promisse to drop my
> stream
> > >of editor-related messages after this point.  You guys are the only
> active
> > >lists of which I am aware of that can help, hence my constant harassment
> > >over the past few days.
> >
> > >Sincerely,
> >
> > >Joe Orozco
> >
> > >by Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for
> humanitydd0-comJames M.
> > >Barrie
> >
> >
> > >_______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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