[nfbcs] Last Post on Editors
Mike Freeman
k7uij at panix.com
Sun Jan 18 06:09:22 UTC 2009
Perhaps. But you could do almost *anything* with TECO though admittedly not word-processing stuff. But you could write macros and do custom search-and-replace operations like very little since!
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "tribble" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
To: "NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Date: Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 11:21:51
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Last Post on Editors
>
>
> oh gag, Mike -- teco was a pain, if we're thinking of the same editor. If
> we're going back to the primitive editors, why not choose ed or even SOS...
> ininsmilies*
> -comle
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 2:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Last Post on Editors
>
>
> My kingdom for a version of TECO! (grin)
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> To: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>, "NFBCS" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>, "NFB-Web"
> <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Friday, Jan 16, 2009 21:09:36
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Last Post on Editors
>
> >
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > It might be helpful to get a better picture of exactly what other problems
> > you are having with JFW. It is unrealistic to
> > expect CONTROL UP and CONTROL DOWN to work in all editors, even when those
> > editors don't use those keys for
> > the same thing. It also isn't realist to think that ALT LEFT and ALT
> > Right will cause JFW to just know to speak the
> > paragraph without a script. You couldn't, for example, assume that all
> > Word keys would work in WordPerfect. The
> > odds are that whichever editor you use, there will be some customizing
> > that will need to be done to get JFW to work
> > perfectly. You might ask about JFW scripters on GUI-Talk. Doug Lee who
> > is subscribed might have some connections
> > or ideas as well, and he is subscribed there. Your quote of my comment
> > really is pretty accurate. You can't script
> > everything you try to see if you like it. You have to learn what can
> > likely be changed and what can't. If an editor
> > supports paragraph navigation, it isn't real difficult to add a script to
> > make it work. If a program doesn't close HTML tags
> > as you would like, that is fairly serious. I thought UltraEdit did do
> > that, but I did not use HTML very much so am not
> > experienced. I know that NoteTab is pretty neat in the way that it adds
> > opening and closing tags and puts the cursor
> > between them.
> >
> > The key mapping dialog is a fairly common problem I am afraid. The reason
> > is that when you are in the definition box
> > and press TAB, it is assumed that is the key you wish to define.
> > UltraEdit does have an option to exclude the TAB key
> > from key mapping which should fix this, and you can usually get around
> > this by using the mouse pointer or JAWS cursor.
> > That's the kind of thing, though, that you could explore once you picked
> > an editor. I believe UltraEdit also supports
> > assigning keys in a file as well, allowing you to avoid the dialog
> > altogether. Some of what is frustrating you is, I'm afraid, a
> > fact of life with computers, and generally has an explanation. That
> > doesn't mean I don't understand the frustration, I do
> > very well.
> >
> > You said this was your last post on this. Well, I, for one, would very
> > much like to hear more, at least on NFBCS, as to
> > what you discover. Also, I would be glad to help if I can. I used a
> > program under DOS called QEDIT, and it took years
> > before I found anything within Windows with which I was comfortable.
> > Eventually, though, I found both NoteTab Pro
> > and UltraEdit to be pretty close and in some ways more powerful, so there
> > is hope, and you might be the guy to find
> > something we haven't found.
> >
> > Hang in there, joe!
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Steve Jacobson
> >
> > On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:56:39 com0500, Joe Orozco wrote:
> >
> > >Hello all,
> >
> > >For those of you on NFBCS, I promise this is my last post on editors.
> > >I'm
> > >copying NFB-Web in hopes that my post, which is half report and half a
> > >call
> > >for help, will widen the number of people who could potentially lend a
> > >hand
> > >or make referrals.
> >
> > >Over the past week I've evaluated half a dozen text editors in search of
> > >something that will make my job a little less monotonous. I'm a grants
> > >manager for a nonprofit here in DC. In addition to maneuvering grant
> > >programs from inception through closeout, it iss my responsibility to
> > >design
> > >the online application in a way that is as accessible as it is visually
> > >appealing. The applications are not of the government length, but they
> > >are
> > >sufficiently long enough to make each application an arduous task.
> > >Anyway,
> > >our department has now bought a domain in hopes of creating an
> > >independent
> > >portal for applicants, grantees and alumns to apply, check status and
> > >actively communicate.
> >
> > >I got FrontPage 2003 but was told the program produced negative, bloated
> > >results. I now have DreamWeaver MX but I am still making my way through
> > >the
> > >manual to understand its functionality. Ultimately I may use DreamWeaver
> > >to
> > >manage the large site that is coming, but I feel much more comfortable
> > >knowing exactly what string of code goes where. Actually, DreamWeaver
> > >intimidates the hell out of me.
> >
> > >I need a program that will:
> >
> > >* provide spellchecking functionality;
> >
> > >* launch browser view without creating a new file first;
> >
> > >* provide instant editing capability via FTP;
> >
> > >* manipulate multiple files in a project; and
> >
> > >* navigate well with JAWS 10.
> >
> > >This last should be a given, but my overriding problem is that JAWS is
> > >not
> > >adequately navigating text the way it's supposed to. Were my needs
> > >solely
> > >about web development, this would not be a problem, but these grant
> > >applications also require a number of guides and tip sheets to be
> > >written.
> > >Before I begin populating the document with code, I like to be able to
> > >look
> > >at the clean copy of the file to adequately assess its written quality.
> >
> > >UltraEdit appears to be the most versatile package. There are different
> > >environments for different types of users, from the basic Notepad
> > >replacement to the technical writer and web developer. The menu
> > >structure
> > >changes according to the person's needs, and moving from one environment
> > >to
> > >the other is a simple progression of three keystrokes. Unfortunately,
> > >JAWS
> > >does not automatically read paragraphs on its own. The Alt and Left and
> > >Right arrow keys jump from section to section, and were this the only
> > >problem, I could live with it. Yet, I have found that there are more
> > >than
> > >several menus that are not accessible to JAWS 10. Key mapping is
> > >unachievable, because landing on the field renders the screen reader
> > >immovable. You have to try to back up into the field after selecting the
> > >function you want from the other side. Plan on using the JAWS cursor to
> > >make the process only slightly easier, and even after turning off the
> > >program's Control and Up and Down features, JAWS 10 does not read the
> > >paragraphs correctly. This was only one menu where I found accessibility
> > >issues. Further, I did not find an auto-complete function for the web
> > >developer environment. DreamWeaver, as enormous as it is, has the neat
> > >ability to automatically close tags for you, something shared by the
> > >HTML-R
> > >library in NoteTab Pro.
> >
> > >NoteTab Pro is one of the two programs I am leaning toward. The
> > >navigation
> > >is probably worse than UltraEdit's, because NoteTab will just say "blank,
> > >blank" when I try to use the traditional paragraph functions with Control
> > >Up
> > >and Down arrows. It does, however, have Spellchecking functionality, and
> > >although I have not attempted to use the FTP feature, it would allow me
> > >to
> > >edit directly onto a remote server. NoteTab has a configuration file
> > >which
> > >I have dumped into my JAWS settings, but I wonder if it is not working
> > >because I only have a trial version of the software. I attempted to turn
> > >on
> > >the accessibility mode using the command line, but I get an error
> > >alerting
> > >me that "notetab.exe" is not a recognized internal function. NoteTab
> > >does
> > >have the neat little feature of automatically closing tags and joining
> > >lines
> > >on specified sections. As far as I can tell, there are clip libraries
> > >people contribute to keep this program fresh between upgrades. These are
> > >code snips that reduce time on projects.
> >
> > >The second program I'm leaning toward is EditPad Pro. It works
> > >beautifully
> > >with JAWS as far as navigation. A few of the menus are not readily
> > >accessible, but I have only begun toying with this program since this
> > >afternoon. It feels the need to create a new file to view in a browser
> > >even
> > >when the file type is set to HTML, but it does have a spellchecker and
> > >project functionality just like NoteTab.
> >
> > >So, what it comes down to is that in EditPad Pro I found a superior text
> > >editor. In NoteTab I may have found the best HTML editor. How in the
> > >world
> > >could I go about merging them into the single perfect package? Buying
> > >both
> > >is a waste of money. At fifty dollars, EditPad Pro seems like a bit much
> > >to
> > >charge for a glorified Notepad substitute that is lacking in HTML
> > >resources.
> > >Then again, at thirty dollars NoteTab is more or less in the same
> > >neighborhood at the cost of glitches in my ability to navigate.
> >
> > >Over the past week I also tried Boxer Editor, Crimson Editor,
> > >Arachnophilia
> > >and HTML Kit. Steve Jacobs suggested I find a good one and then force it
> > >to
> > >work for me. Well, not his exact words, but same idea. Each of these
> > >aforementioned packages were not accessible to me in some form or
> > >fashion.
> > >The three listed above are among the best of their class, but there's a
> > >combination of accessibility and feature sets that makes choosing
> > >difficult.
> > >I guess I'm looking for a good Notepad replacement with just enough HTML
> > >resources to make web site development slightly easier. UltraEdit has a
> > >unique feature where you can copy and paste from one of nine or ten
> > >different clipboards.
> >
> > >Okay, now that my rambling is done, here are my specific questions:
> >
> > >1. Is there a list-serve or web site where I can find scripting
> > >programmers
> > >for JAWS who can help me figure out what's ailing my JAWS with NoteTab?
> >
> > >2. Are there any users of any of the three aforementioned programs who
> > >use
> > >the package for both text editing and HTML coding? If so, what would you
> > >suggest to go about configuring the package to work with JAWS?
> >
> > >3. What are the advantages of maintaining a text editor separate from an
> > >HTML editor? I know ultimately it's a matter of personal choice, but my
> > >conundrum between NoteTab and EditPad Pro makes me wonder if others have
> > >balanced both to manage projects.
> >
> > >4. Is there a repository for blind web developers already in progress?
> >
> > >For your own knowledge, I am using Windows XP SP3 with JAWS 10.
> >
> > >If you can point me in the right direction or forward my post to someone
> > >who
> > >can help, I would be most appreciative. And, I promisse to drop my
> > >stream
> > >of editor-related messages after this point. You guys are the only
> > >active
> > >lists of which I am aware of that can help, hence my constant harassment
> > >over the past few days.
> >
> > >Sincerely,
> >
> > >Joe Orozco
> >
> > >by Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for
> > >humanitydd0-comJames M.
> > >Barrie
> >
> >
> > >_______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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