[nfbcs] Last Post on Editors
Steve Jacobson
steve.jacobson at visi.com
Sun Jan 18 06:13:45 UTC 2009
Mike,
I am not familiar with TECO, but I think you would be surprised what some of today's editors can do, including supporting
regular expressions. Whether than TECO I can't say, but they do at least as well as my old favorite QEDIT and more.
On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:09:22 -0800, Mike Freeman wrote:
>Perhaps. But you could do almost *anything* with TECO though admittedly not word-processing stuff. But you could
write macros and do custom search-and-replace operations like very little since!
>Mike
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "tribble" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>To: "NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>Date: Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 11:21:51
>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Last Post on Editors
>>
>>
>> oh gag, Mike -- teco was a pain, if we're thinking of the same editor. If
>> we're going back to the primitive editors, why not choose ed or even SOS...
>> ininsmilies*
>> -comle
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> To: <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 2:43 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Last Post on Editors
>>
>>
>> My kingdom for a version of TECO! (grin)
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>> To: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>, "NFBCS" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>, "NFB-Web"
>> <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Friday, Jan 16, 2009 21:09:36
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Last Post on Editors
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Joe,
>> >
>> > It might be helpful to get a better picture of exactly what other problems
>> > you are having with JFW. It is unrealistic to
>> > expect CONTROL UP and CONTROL DOWN to work in all editors, even when those
>> > editors don't use those keys for
>> > the same thing. It also isn't realist to think that ALT LEFT and ALT
>> > Right will cause JFW to just know to speak the
>> > paragraph without a script. You couldn't, for example, assume that all
>> > Word keys would work in WordPerfect. The
>> > odds are that whichever editor you use, there will be some customizing
>> > that will need to be done to get JFW to work
>> > perfectly. You might ask about JFW scripters on GUI-Talk. Doug Lee who
>> > is subscribed might have some connections
>> > or ideas as well, and he is subscribed there. Your quote of my comment
>> > really is pretty accurate. You can't script
>> > everything you try to see if you like it. You have to learn what can
>> > likely be changed and what can't. If an editor
>> > supports paragraph navigation, it isn't real difficult to add a script to
>> > make it work. If a program doesn't close HTML tags
>> > as you would like, that is fairly serious. I thought UltraEdit did do
>> > that, but I did not use HTML very much so am not
>> > experienced. I know that NoteTab is pretty neat in the way that it adds
>> > opening and closing tags and puts the cursor
>> > between them.
>> >
>> > The key mapping dialog is a fairly common problem I am afraid. The reason
>> > is that when you are in the definition box
>> > and press TAB, it is assumed that is the key you wish to define.
>> > UltraEdit does have an option to exclude the TAB key
>> > from key mapping which should fix this, and you can usually get around
>> > this by using the mouse pointer or JAWS cursor.
>> > That's the kind of thing, though, that you could explore once you picked
>> > an editor. I believe UltraEdit also supports
>> > assigning keys in a file as well, allowing you to avoid the dialog
>> > altogether. Some of what is frustrating you is, I'm afraid, a
>> > fact of life with computers, and generally has an explanation. That
>> > doesn't mean I don't understand the frustration, I do
>> > very well.
>> >
>> > You said this was your last post on this. Well, I, for one, would very
>> > much like to hear more, at least on NFBCS, as to
>> > what you discover. Also, I would be glad to help if I can. I used a
>> > program under DOS called QEDIT, and it took years
>> > before I found anything within Windows with which I was comfortable.
>> > Eventually, though, I found both NoteTab Pro
>> > and UltraEdit to be pretty close and in some ways more powerful, so there
>> > is hope, and you might be the guy to find
>> > something we haven't found.
>> >
>> > Hang in there, joe!
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > Steve Jacobson
>> >
>> > On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:56:39 com0500, Joe Orozco wrote:
>> >
>> > >Hello all,
>> >
>> > >For those of you on NFBCS, I promise this is my last post on editors.
>> > >I'm
>> > >copying NFB-Web in hopes that my post, which is half report and half a
>> > >call
>> > >for help, will widen the number of people who could potentially lend a
>> > >hand
>> > >or make referrals.
>> >
>> > >Over the past week I've evaluated half a dozen text editors in search of
>> > >something that will make my job a little less monotonous. I'm a grants
>> > >manager for a nonprofit here in DC. In addition to maneuvering grant
>> > >programs from inception through closeout, it iss my responsibility to
>> > >design
>> > >the online application in a way that is as accessible as it is visually
>> > >appealing. The applications are not of the government length, but they
>> > >are
>> > >sufficiently long enough to make each application an arduous task.
>> > >Anyway,
>> > >our department has now bought a domain in hopes of creating an
>> > >independent
>> > >portal for applicants, grantees and alumns to apply, check status and
>> > >actively communicate.
>> >
>> > >I got FrontPage 2003 but was told the program produced negative, bloated
>> > >results. I now have DreamWeaver MX but I am still making my way through
>> > >the
>> > >manual to understand its functionality. Ultimately I may use DreamWeaver
>> > >to
>> > >manage the large site that is coming, but I feel much more comfortable
>> > >knowing exactly what string of code goes where. Actually, DreamWeaver
>> > >intimidates the hell out of me.
>> >
>> > >I need a program that will:
>> >
>> > >* provide spellchecking functionality;
>> >
>> > >* launch browser view without creating a new file first;
>> >
>> > >* provide instant editing capability via FTP;
>> >
>> > >* manipulate multiple files in a project; and
>> >
>> > >* navigate well with JAWS 10.
>> >
>> > >This last should be a given, but my overriding problem is that JAWS is
>> > >not
>> > >adequately navigating text the way it's supposed to. Were my needs
>> > >solely
>> > >about web development, this would not be a problem, but these grant
>> > >applications also require a number of guides and tip sheets to be
>> > >written.
>> > >Before I begin populating the document with code, I like to be able to
>> > >look
>> > >at the clean copy of the file to adequately assess its written quality.
>> >
>> > >UltraEdit appears to be the most versatile package. There are different
>> > >environments for different types of users, from the basic Notepad
>> > >replacement to the technical writer and web developer. The menu
>> > >structure
>> > >changes according to the person's needs, and moving from one environment
>> > >to
>> > >the other is a simple progression of three keystrokes. Unfortunately,
>> > >JAWS
>> > >does not automatically read paragraphs on its own. The Alt and Left and
>> > >Right arrow keys jump from section to section, and were this the only
>> > >problem, I could live with it. Yet, I have found that there are more
>> > >than
>> > >several menus that are not accessible to JAWS 10. Key mapping is
>> > >unachievable, because landing on the field renders the screen reader
>> > >immovable. You have to try to back up into the field after selecting the
>> > >function you want from the other side. Plan on using the JAWS cursor to
>> > >make the process only slightly easier, and even after turning off the
>> > >program's Control and Up and Down features, JAWS 10 does not read the
>> > >paragraphs correctly. This was only one menu where I found accessibility
>> > >issues. Further, I did not find an auto-complete function for the web
>> > >developer environment. DreamWeaver, as enormous as it is, has the neat
>> > >ability to automatically close tags for you, something shared by the
>> > >HTML-R
>> > >library in NoteTab Pro.
>> >
>> > >NoteTab Pro is one of the two programs I am leaning toward. The
>> > >navigation
>> > >is probably worse than UltraEdit's, because NoteTab will just say "blank,
>> > >blank" when I try to use the traditional paragraph functions with Control
>> > >Up
>> > >and Down arrows. It does, however, have Spellchecking functionality, and
>> > >although I have not attempted to use the FTP feature, it would allow me
>> > >to
>> > >edit directly onto a remote server. NoteTab has a configuration file
>> > >which
>> > >I have dumped into my JAWS settings, but I wonder if it is not working
>> > >because I only have a trial version of the software. I attempted to turn
>> > >on
>> > >the accessibility mode using the command line, but I get an error
>> > >alerting
>> > >me that "notetab.exe" is not a recognized internal function. NoteTab
>> > >does
>> > >have the neat little feature of automatically closing tags and joining
>> > >lines
>> > >on specified sections. As far as I can tell, there are clip libraries
>> > >people contribute to keep this program fresh between upgrades. These are
>> > >code snips that reduce time on projects.
>> >
>> > >The second program I'm leaning toward is EditPad Pro. It works
>> > >beautifully
>> > >with JAWS as far as navigation. A few of the menus are not readily
>> > >accessible, but I have only begun toying with this program since this
>> > >afternoon. It feels the need to create a new file to view in a browser
>> > >even
>> > >when the file type is set to HTML, but it does have a spellchecker and
>> > >project functionality just like NoteTab.
>> >
>> > >So, what it comes down to is that in EditPad Pro I found a superior text
>> > >editor. In NoteTab I may have found the best HTML editor. How in the
>> > >world
>> > >could I go about merging them into the single perfect package? Buying
>> > >both
>> > >is a waste of money. At fifty dollars, EditPad Pro seems like a bit much
>> > >to
>> > >charge for a glorified Notepad substitute that is lacking in HTML
>> > >resources.
>> > >Then again, at thirty dollars NoteTab is more or less in the same
>> > >neighborhood at the cost of glitches in my ability to navigate.
>> >
>> > >Over the past week I also tried Boxer Editor, Crimson Editor,
>> > >Arachnophilia
>> > >and HTML Kit. Steve Jacobs suggested I find a good one and then force it
>> > >to
>> > >work for me. Well, not his exact words, but same idea. Each of these
>> > >aforementioned packages were not accessible to me in some form or
>> > >fashion.
>> > >The three listed above are among the best of their class, but there's a
>> > >combination of accessibility and feature sets that makes choosing
>> > >difficult.
>> > >I guess I'm looking for a good Notepad replacement with just enough HTML
>> > >resources to make web site development slightly easier. UltraEdit has a
>> > >unique feature where you can copy and paste from one of nine or ten
>> > >different clipboards.
>> >
>> > >Okay, now that my rambling is done, here are my specific questions:
>> >
>> > >1. Is there a list-serve or web site where I can find scripting
>> > >programmers
>> > >for JAWS who can help me figure out what's ailing my JAWS with NoteTab?
>> >
>> > >2. Are there any users of any of the three aforementioned programs who
>> > >use
>> > >the package for both text editing and HTML coding? If so, what would you
>> > >suggest to go about configuring the package to work with JAWS?
>> >
>> > >3. What are the advantages of maintaining a text editor separate from an
>> > >HTML editor? I know ultimately it's a matter of personal choice, but my
>> > >conundrum between NoteTab and EditPad Pro makes me wonder if others have
>> > >balanced both to manage projects.
>> >
>> > >4. Is there a repository for blind web developers already in progress?
>> >
>> > >For your own knowledge, I am using Windows XP SP3 with JAWS 10.
>> >
>> > >If you can point me in the right direction or forward my post to someone
>> > >who
>> > >can help, I would be most appreciative. And, I promisse to drop my
>> > >stream
>> > >of editor-related messages after this point. You guys are the only
>> > >active
>> > >lists of which I am aware of that can help, hence my constant harassment
>> > >over the past few days.
>> >
>> > >Sincerely,
>> >
>> > >Joe Orozco
>> >
>> > >by Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for
>> > >humanitydd0-comJames M.
>> > >Barrie
>> >
>> >
>> > >_______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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