[nfbcs] Adaptive Technology and Your Pocketbook

Fri Feb 5 15:05:46 UTC 2010

Joe,

Its totally inappropriate for you to attack me personally. All I did was ask 
questions. If you're not interested in opposing points of view, you should 
have said so right up front. It's obvious that you are bound and determined 
to continue on the course you've already settled on in spite of what anyone 
says.

Well, anyway, back to the facts. I have 2 points to make which you still 
have not addressed.

1. What evidence do you have to believe that prices for accessible 
technologies are artificially high. That prices are high is not evidence 
that they are *artificially* high. There is a considerable amount of 
evidence that prices are not artificially high much of which I've already 
mentioned. There is at least one totally free commercial screen reader 
available for Windows, system access. There is another free commercial 
screen reader available for Mac OS. And there are several free open source 
screen readers. At least in the area of screen readers, there is absolutely 
a great deal of price competition. It stands to reason that the competition 
over flows into other areas. GW Micro even has a price/performance 
comparison chart for note takers on its web site. Now, in spite of all this 
evidence, you continue to insist that prices are artificially high. But why?

2. What do you think a campaign can accomplish that competition cannot? Even 
if your assertion that competition is ineffective, and I don't believe it 
is, what do you think a campaign will do? This is not an idle question. I 
would like to know how you're going to approach the problem.  It seems 
unlikely that if accessibility technology manufacturers are deliberatly 
inflating prices, they they'll lower them just because you ask. I mean, 
Freedom Scientific is not going to say, "Huh, all this time we thought blind 
people liked paying  $6000 for a note taker. Okay, the price is now $600." 
If you ask me why should accessible technology companies lower their price 
regardless of competition, I'll point out that I asked you first. If they're 
not going to lower it for competition sake, why should they lower it for 
you?

In other words ,I would like to know what kind of leverage you are planning 
to bring to bear in your campaign.  That's a fair question.
PS: Feel free to ignore my questions. I may kill this entire thread anyway. 
I'm not interested in arguing with someone who has already made up their 
mind anyway.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Adaptive Technology and Your Pocketbook

> John,
>
> You're quite the little ray of sunshine, aren't you?
>
> Competition is not the answer, because as long as there is a small group 
> of
> players, neither one will blink and drop prices to get more customers. 
> Why
> should a company drop prices if they can get away with staying in the same
> general neighborhood as the others?  This is not exactly a phenomenon
> limited to the blindness market.  It's simple enterprise.
>
> Freedom Scientific is not losing customers to Apple, because the PC is 
> still
> dominant.  People have certainly migrated to the Mac, and there are 
> benefits
> to purchasing a computer that comes talking out of the box.  Yet, the
> average consumer will be hard pressed to learn a new operating system for
> the sake of a built-in screen reader that is still growing and whose 
> overall
> platform is still inferior to the compatibility of the PC.  I'm not 
> bashing
> Apple.  On the contrary, I applaud their work, but don't allow your own
> computer preferences to make you assume your views are shared by the
> majority of consumers, blind or sighted.
>
> And, no, I think that while some people will move over to less expensive
> options like NVDA, people ultimately know that the accessibility of these
> choices does not rival the accessibility of JAWS and Window Eyes.  Talk to
> David Andrews who pointed out that the introduction of these products can
> actually hurt the adaptive industry.
>
> I'm not looking for a JAWS alternative.  I don't care for the price
> associated with purchasing new upgrades, but for now it's what I have to 
> pay
> to get the accessibility I need.  Yet, you assume this is a self-motivated
> campaign designed to air out my own grievances.  Believe it or not, I care
> about people without the means to buy their own technology.  In today's
> economy there's no telling when I find myself in the same position to be
> unable to buy what I need to get by.
>
> It's not a matter of ethics when you compare the cost of a mainstream
> product to the astronomical cost of an adaptive one.  I think this is the
> strategy of an informed consumer.  Voting with my dollars will hardly put 
> a
> dent in what is already at least a $30 million sales operation in the case
> of Freedom Scientific, according to public records, and that's only an
> estimate.  WAFRA Partners only purchases companies that generate a minimum
> revenue of $20 million.  That too is public record.  I could be stupid and
> assume my refusing to pay $260 for a JAWS upgrade will make them shake 
> their
> heads and think, "wow, you know, maybe I should bring down prices."
> Seriously, don't be delusional.
>
> And, don't be a naysayer.  You have no idea how the campaign will evolve.
> If people don't step up to the plate, it won't even happen, because
> ultimately I am only interested in helping people who want to try to help
> themselves.  You don't even know how the companies will respond, because
> until there is reason to believe otherwise, we can only hope that what is
> achieved is a true compromise that does not deprive companies of the funds
> necessary to step up development and does not bar consumers from taking
> advantage of all the technology.  What you do know is that whatever 
> benefits
> are achieved from our little group of diverse professionals are also going
> to benefit you.  Don't sit there and throw up objections to something good
> that could happen without your raising a finger.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:55 PM
> To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Adaptive Technology and Your Pocketbook
>
> I can't figure out what you think a campaign can do that
> competition isn't
> already doing.
>
> Don't you think that Freedom Scientific knows its losing
> customers to Apple
> and voiceover? Not to mention nvda, orca, and system access?
> Don't you think
> FS, GW Micro, and Humanware are already doing as much as they
> can to keep
> their prices low in order to sell more products than their
> competitors? I
> really think that if you went to FS and said that you'd really
> like them to
> lower the price of the Pac Mate, they'd say that they only wish
> they could
> so that they could out sell GWM and Humanware.
>
> I mean, if you don't like Freedom Scientific's pricing structure, buy
> Window-eyes instead. Or buy a Mac and use voiceOver. That's
> what I did. In
> fact, I told FS that. I actually called the sales number at FS,
> asked how
> much it would cost to upgrade jaws and when they said like a
> million dollars
> (whatever) I told them that I was going to buy a Macintosh. And
> I did.  I'm
> still using an old version of jaws at work but I will probably
> never buy
> another jaws license.
>
> Anyway, I just don't see what a campaign can do that voting with your
> dollars can't do much better.
>
> Besides, I think its unethical to accuse a company of gouging
> its customers
> without evidence. ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; "'NFB Webmaster's
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> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:21 PM
> Subject: [nfbcs] Adaptive Technology and Your Pocketbook
>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Over the past couple days I have engaged a discussion on several lists
>> concerning the price of adaptive technology.  There are
> varying views on
>> whether or not these prices are fair, and there appears to be
> interest in
>> creating a campaign to address the issue.  If you are interested in
>> lending
>> your views or your support, please e-mail me at the address
> below.  This
>> would be preferable to a prolonged discussion across multiple lists.
>> Please
>> e-mail anyone you feel would be interested in participating,
> and please
>> especially help us find representatives from the leading adaptive
>> technology
>> companies.  We are not interested in creating a landscape of
> corporations
>> versus consumers.  At this time there is no evidence
> suggesting adaptive
>> technology companies are not willing to discuss our concerns, and
>> preliminary feedback on the issue mostly agrees that we
> should find a plan
>> that takes into account the real cost of production and the
> impact to a
>> consumer's personal finances.  We do not know if the answer
> lies in lower
>> prices, payment plans or philanthropic programs to help
> offset the cost of
>> this technology, but we will not find answers if we do not
> hear from you.
>>
>> If you are interested in participating in a working group,
> please e-mail
>> me
>> at:
>>
>> jsorozco at gmail.com
>>
>> Thank you in advance,
>>
>> Joe Orozco
>>
>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>
>>
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