[nfbcs] Career Advice

[Jeanine Lineback]

The environment I, in regards to security and blindness products,
is the same here in Texas. I work for state government and it is
get more and more difficult for me to do my daily job tasks with
JAWS running on a sluggish server that is for all state employees
of DARS. The only way to even get your own individual license for
JAWS to run on a laptop computer is to fill out several forms
which must be signed by your supervisor and their supervisor.
Then the forms go through several layers of management that deal
specifically with computer devices and security. Let's not even
talk about hooking up a BrailleSense to my computer at work
because it wasn't purchased for that reason. It would be a clear
violation of policy without a form to make it "Legal.".


-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
Freeman
Sent: October 11, 2012 10:15 PM
To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Career Advice

I concur completely with Steve's observations below. These days,
in a business or even government environment, less and less
traditional programming is being done and more and more what
programming there is is contracted out. Moreover, as Steve says,
increasingly, businesses and government are buying off-the-shelf
software packages (some of which are screen-reader-accessible and
some of which are not). A few hot-shot blind programmers are
going into environments such as C# and java and more are working
in interpretive languages such as Python. But, as Steve says, a
number of us are going into other arenas such as network
administration.
Over the past few years, my government agency has gone from a HP
OpenVMS environment to a windows environment (alas, I wish my
agency had chosen
UNIX) and so I'm having to come up to speed rather quickly to
become an administrator of Windows Server ® 2008 R2 systems. When
I began my employment 33 years ago, I was actually doing systems
programming in assembly language and if we wanted data brought
into our computer systems, we wrote the routines directly to do
this including the drivers for the hardware that handled the
data. No more. As Steve says, we have a lot of SQL and other
packages running on servers running essentially what is Windows 7
on steroids -- Windows Server® 2008 R2.

I'm not sure I'd advise programming as a good entry-level job
path today either. But those who find it fascinating *can* find
jobs. But the environment is much more competitive and fast-paced
than it once was and many tasks these days are more one-off and
less are continuing maintenance of existing tasks, at least in my
shop.

And all this is complicated by the almost paranoid interest in
security these days. It often just about takes an act of Congress
to get a screen-reader on one's work station now, for example.
This may just be an artifact of the electric power system (where
I work) but I suspect it goes further than this. I remember some
time this year when one fellow was trying to figure out how to
hook up his laptop with all his specialized blind-friendly
programming tools on secure corporate networks where such
connectivity is basically forbidden. I have somewhat the same
problem in that I can't hook up my BrailleSensePLUS to my
workstation without violating policies.

So the environment isn't as straightforward as it once was.

And I, too, take extra time and seldom put in for comp time even
though I'm allowed to. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.

Mike Freeman


-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Jacobson
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:12 PM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Career Advice

Generally I would agree with both of you, too, but what I would
say for my two cents is that I don't know that I would start out
now as a programmer if I was looking to work for a company.
Certainly there are still programming jobs, but there are not the
jobs there used to be.  It is much, much more common now for
companies to buy software that they can use to perform many of
the functions they used to accomplish with in-house systems that
were designed and written by their programmers and analysts.
When companies need to have programming done, it is far more
common now to contract it out or even outsource it to off-shore
locations.
However, there is a lot of need yet for people who are skilled in
database design and knowing how to work with databases which
includes a thorough knowledge of SQL.  SQL isn't programming but
is rewarding and challenging in its own way.  There is quite a
bit being done with networking, too, and there are some blind
people who are involved with network administration.

Of course, if one is thinking of developing software and wants to
write it some themselves, a programming language is very
important.  Also, if one has his or her eyes on a specific area
where programming is common, learning a programming language is
still a good idea.  I also think there is value to be gained by
learning a programming language and writing something just to get
a sense of what is necessary.  I wonder, though, what the success
rate is for blind persons or anyone for that matter, going to
school to learn a programming language and then getting a good
job.  I am in a position where I work that occasionally has me
looking at a COBOL program to see what is wrong with it.  We
still run a good bit of COBOL here, but the maintenance of COBOL
is contracted out.  My value to my company, probably more than
programming, is my in depth knowledge of how the business
processes relate to our computer systems.  That has allowed me to
take that expertise and bring it with me as I changed to a
different computer platform, working primarily with databases.
Like John, I anticipated where the need would be and felt I could
do all right in the SQL environment and found reasons to learn
quite a bit about that, some on my own time, so when there was a
push in that direction, I had at least some of the tools I
needed.  For someone just starting out in this field, it is very
important to look at the entire field, get some idea of what is
interesting and also what fits ones strengths.  One also needs to
look at what one can do for a long enough time to get some
understanding of how a given employer does business even if it
isn't ideal, knowing one might be able to move into something
they like better having gained that experience.

Fifteen years ago, I would never have believed what a mixed bag
accessibility still is.  Unfortunately, there are going to be
companies who are using tools that are inaccessible enough to
make working for that company a loosing bet.  I still maintain a
hope that things will continue to improve, but it can still be a
factor.  Sometimes it is clearly the developers of software who
are to blame, but some of the problem is that screen reader
developers just don't have time to implement newer technologies
that could be accessible because they are so busy chasing the
development of the latest operating systems.  I don't know the
answer to that particular problem.  Anyway, there are probably no
exact answers, but hopefully our responses provide some useful
food for thought.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 13:21:39 -0500, John G. Heim wrote:

>I pretty much agree with everything you say below although I
might not
>paint quite such a dark picture. But, yeah, I feel I've
been successful in my career by working harder than everybody
else, putting in extra time to make up for being slower than the
sighted guys, and doing a lot of research on my own time.

>I also agree with the point about keeping your skills up. There
is this
>phenomenon I call "backwatering". New technologies tend
to be inaccessible so a blind technologist doesn't get the
assignment of working with them. Slowly, he becomes less and less
crucial to his company because he's working with old technology.
Then when layoffs come around, he's the one to go. And in some
ways, that's only fair. After all, he is the least important
member of the team.

>IMO, its important to be very aggressive in pursuing new
technologies.
>I taught myself on my own time almost all the skills I use
in my current job. I am sure there are jobs where that isn't
necessary but they are few and far between. Also, to some degree
it depends on what you want out of your career. I work for the
University of Wisconsin and they don't layoff people very often.
But a few years ago, I went to my boss and said I thought my
skills were being wasted and that I could do a lot more, he said,
"What's your problem? You're still getting paid, aren't you?" But
I wasn't satisfied just pulling down a paycheck. Plus, I figured
that eventually they'd get around to getting rid of me. So I
switched jobs and got into a different department.

>----Original Message-----
>From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>majolls at cox.net
>Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 11:31 AM
>To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>Cc: Tracy Carcione
>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Career Advice

>Working in the computer field is a challenging experience,
especially
>for a
blind person (well partially sighted in my case).
Here are some things to consider:

>Know your craft thoroughly.  Be as prepared with your
programming
>languages as you possibly can be.  Corporations are looking for
people that can solve a problem quickly and who know where to go
look when
they donâ¬"t know the answers.   Therefore, you need to
be as knowledgeable as you possibly can be in whatever
programming languages you decide to work in.

> Know your weaknesses and have solutions in place before you go
get the
> job.  Itâ¬"s a competitive environment out there and the
people that can get the job done right in the shortest amount of
time at the least cost are the ones that seem to rise to the top
at least in my company.
You need to know any limitations your disability places on you
and you need to have a solution BEFORE you go to the job so it
doesnâ¬"t hurt you in your career and you can keep up with the
normally sighted people.  For example, my reading speed is about
130wpm.  A normal person reads at about 250wpm.
You can see it will take me twice as long reading as someone
else.  In my daily job, Iâ¬"m constantly reading code on the
computer monitor.  So you can see how a normal person without any
vision issues will finish things before me.  Doing your best in
this case is not good enough because youâ¬"ll always be coming in
last.  And that equates to less money at your performance review.
Trust me, I have 30+ years of experience to back me up on this.
If you think Braille, for example, will help overcome slow
reading, or using programs such as Jaws, learn it BEFORE you get
to the job so thereâ¬"s no chance of supervisors forming opinions
of how you work.

>Know that the job will eventually change, and sooner than later.
In my
>job, new technologies are always coming up.  The company
is looking for faster and better ways of doing things.  And that
means theyâ¬"re trying new programming languages, new things to
make us meaner and leaner programmers.  And that means that you
have to learn quickly, and probably more often than you would
like.  You may be required (not by your employer but just by the
fact that you have to keep up) to spend extra hours in the
evening learning if you donâ¬"t have enough time during the day.
The years of learning a few things for your job and doing that
for 5-10 years are gone.  Figure on having to relearn your job
every couple of years depending on what new thing is coming out.

You have to ask yourself if you feel like  keeping up like that
all the time, or if your disability will put limitations on you
there.  You are definitely under pressure in these situations.

>Be prepared to work overtime.  If youâ¬"re in a professional job
such
>as I am and youâ¬"re not as fast as others, itâ¬"s going to
take you more hours to do the same work in a time-frame that an
employer considers normal.  Iâ¬"ve come to the conclusion I can
probably never please my employer.  Or, if you have to do the
training thing, you may not get it all done in the course of 8
hours.  In my job, an 8 hour day is the thing of the past.  I
work more like a 10 hour day just to stay even .. to make up for
my poor eyesight.  Even with technology such as screen
magnification and speech, and Braille, I still work a 10 hour
day.  With the demands of the job, itâ¬"s just the standard.

>So consider all these things.  Perhaps you can assess your
situation
>and justify going into computer programming.  It is a good
career, but to keep up and compete is a challenge.  Itâ¬"s even
moreso with a vision disability in my opinion.

>I don't want to throw cold water on things, but I've had a lot
of
>frustration in my career.  It's no fun when you come in second
most of the time and people seem to move ahead of you and nothing
seems to work.

>---- Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>> When I was looking for work with my programming certificate, I
got an
>> offer from the IRS, but the salary was very low, and any
programming
>> would have to be approved by head office in DC.  I declined
the
>> offer, and soon got a much better one.  Even though I started
at a
>> low, trainee salary, it was still significantly better than
the IRS
>> was offering. Though perhaps IRS salaries are the same across
the
>> country, and only low when compared to average New York
salaries.
>> Tracy
>>
>> > I googled tfor info on the program. A link is below. A one
>> > paragraph summary is as follows...
>> >
>> >> Program Description: The Programming curriculum prepares
clients
>> >> to work
>> > in a wide range of programming
>> >> environments including .NET and JAVA, and other application

>> >> projects as
>> > well. Certification exams for JAVA and
>> >> Microsoft Certified Professional Developer (MCPD) are
offered
>> >> through the
>> > program. Some prior programming
>> >> experience is helpful, but not necessary to be successful
in this
>> >> course.
>> > This program often offers the opportunity to get
>> >> a commitment for employment with the Internal Revenue
Service.
>> >
>> >
http://lwsb.org/index.php/general-overview/vocational-catalog/#co
nt
>> > e
>> > nt
>> >
>> > Wasn't it this list where we just had a huge debate about
java?
>> > I'm thinking java programming might be making a huge
comeback in
>> > writing apps for mobile phones.  But I'll admit I don't
really know
>> > what I'm talking about. I would note, however, that the link
above
>> > indicates that the Lions web site itself is written in php,
not
>> > .net or
java.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Tracy
>> > Carcione
>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 9:38 AM
>> > To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Career Advice
>> >
>> > Hi Daniel.
>> > I got a programming certificate, after I found I was going
nowhere
>> > with my college degree.  I looked around, and found a
certificate
>> > course that taught the languages employers were looking for
at the
>> > time.  It was local, not out-of-state.
>> > If you do go to Lions World, try to make sure that they are
>> > teaching languages that will actually  be in demand.
>> > Learning programming was a very good move for me.  I have a
secure
>> > job that pays well, and is usually interesting.  I'm not
sure if
>> > the IRS job pays well, or is interesting.
>> > My brother is also a blind programmer, working for
subcontractors
>> > to the government.  He gets paid OK, but gets laid off every
few years.
>> > So your results may vary. But I think he'd rather be
programming
>> > than having a rather dull but secure IRS job.
>> > HTH.
>> > Tracy
>> >
>> >> Hello Everyone:
>> >>
>> >> I hope this is the appropriate forum for this question.
>> >>
>> >> I am legally blind with a background in engineering and
manufacturing.
>> >> After
>> >> talking with many blind engineers, I find that many of them
are
>> >> thriving computer programmers.
>> >>
>> >> I am now trying to decide whether to go to Lions World in
Little
>> >> Rock to take their 10 month computer programming course. My

>> >> counselor at my states agency for the blind wants me to go
to
>> >> Lions World but to take one of their IRS courses, which
would in
>> >> essence be a guaranteed job with the Feds.
>> >>
>> >> I am the type of person who could do any job, at least that
is
>> >> what my aptitude tests tell me.
>> >>
>> >> What is life like for blind computer programmers? Do most
work for
>> >> employers or as freelancers/contractors? Are there any
languages
>> >> in particular I should focus on? Are there any other ways
of
>> >> learning computer programming as a blind person than going
out of
state?
>> >> Learning on my own is just not working for me.
>> >>
>> >> Any advice you can give would be appreciated.
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >>
>> >> Daniel Garcia
>> >> Northville, MI
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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