[nfbcs] Career Advice
Steve Jacobson
steve.jacobson at visi.com
Fri Oct 12 13:54:42 UTC 2012
Bryan,
If you were treated unfairly, that is certainly unfortunate, but it isn't something that is particular to programming. It can be
a problem for anyone who is contracting, and it can be a serious one. It can be a hard one to sort out unless the preference is
very obvious. I would guess that most of us who have responded to this topic are not in the position of contracting our services,
and if one starts a small business, there is a whole host of challenges that one has to consider beyond their computer skills to
make it.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 00:46:26 -0500, Bryan Schulz wrote:
>hi,
>i have read several messages talking about skills but not much about the
>supervisory chain.
>what happens when you are good but are forced to close a business due to one
>or two supervisors stacking the deck of clients in the favor of another
>specific vendor?
>Bryan Schulz
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>To: "NFB in Computer Science Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:28 PM
>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Career Advice
>> David,
>>
>> Perhaps I am wrong, but I think you missed the point on the "extra work"
>> language. In many jobs now, everyone works after hours which could be
>> called
>> extra work in a way, but that isn't what I was thinking about. I think
>> the point that some of us are making is that to keep up, we need to do
>> work that is
>> beyond the work that our sighted co-workers do in order to stay even.
>> That isn't meant to sound like a complaint, it is rather a plan to achieve
>> success. I
>> have seen blind people not willing to do that and it usually means they
>> won't achieve the success they could achieve, and can even bring about
>> failure. I
>> also think we have to be honest with ourselves. If we're in a field that
>> is interesting, it can be fun, but sometimes it isn't fun but is a
>> necessity. I do have to
>> keep my skills up to stay even with those of my co-workers. However, I'm
>> probably the only one of my co-workers who knows what needs to be done to
>> bring up Lotus Notes in basic mode which is more efficient with screen
>> readers. Most if not all of my sighted co-workers select text on a
>> terminal emulation
>> screen to include in an e-mail with the mouse. While I can do that, it
>> isn't real efficient for me. I took the time to learn the emulator's
>> scripting language so
>> I could define a key to select specific amounts of text. I, and I'm sure
>> others, could list a number of other things like this where we need to
>> spend some of
>> our own time to learn things that make us more efficient on the job. I
>> think this aspect of our jobs is very important to convey to people
>> starting out. Often
>> the process of learning these extra things not only makes us more
>> efficient, but can result in having knowledge that can benefit others or
>> bring a different
>> solution to a problem.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:02:43 -0500, david hertweck wrote:
>>
>>>You know this talk about keeping your skills up. I work in the R&D
>>>department and everyone does extra work and works on their own time, that
>>>is
>>>just the norm. I find it stimulating to keep up with my sighted caleegs .
>>>Do not look at it as extra work look at it as an opportunity to learn and
>>>grow. For me I want to always move up and be doing different things.
>>>.
>>
>>
>>
>>>depart your s
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: John G. Heim
>>>Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 1:21 PM
>>>To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Career Advice
>>
>>>I pretty much agree with everything you say below although I might not
>>>paint
>>>quite such a dark picture. But, yeah, I feel I've been successful in my
>>>career by working harder than everybody else, putting in extra time to
>>>make
>>>up for being slower than the sighted guys, and doing a lot of research on
>>>my
>>>own time.
>>
>>>I also agree with the point about keeping your skills up. There is this
>>>phenomenon I call "backwatering". New technologies tend to be inaccessible
>>>so a blind technologist doesn't get the assignment of working with them.
>>>Slowly, he becomes less and less crucial to his company because he's
>>>working
>>>with old technology. Then when layoffs come around, he's the one to go.
>>>And
>>>in some ways, that's only fair. After all, he is the least important
>>>member
>>>of the team.
>>
>>>IMO, its important to be very aggressive in pursuing new technologies. I
>>>taught myself on my own time almost all the skills I use in my current
>>>job.
>>>I am sure there are jobs where that isn't necessary but they are few and
>>>far
>>>between. Also, to some degree it depends on what you want out of your
>>>career. I work for the University of Wisconsin and they don't layoff
>>>people
>>>very often. But a few years ago, I went to my boss and said I thought my
>>>skills were being wasted and that I could do a lot more, he said, "What's
>>>your problem? You're still getting paid, aren't you?" But I wasn't
>>>satisfied
>>>just pulling down a paycheck. Plus, I figured that eventually they'd get
>>>around to getting rid of me. So I switched jobs and got into a different
>>>department.
>>
>>>----Original Message-----
>>>From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of majolls at cox.net
>>>Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 11:31 AM
>>>To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>>Cc: Tracy Carcione
>>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Career Advice
>>
>>>Working in the computer field is a challenging experience, especially for
>>>a
>>>blind person (well partially sighted in my case). Here are some things to
>>>consider:
>>
>>>Know your craft thoroughly. Be as prepared with your programming
>>>languages
>>>as you possibly can be. Corporations are looking for people that can
>>>solve
>>>a problem quickly and who know where to go look when they donG?Tt know the
>>>answers. Therefore, you need to be as knowledgeable as you possibly can
>>>be
>>>in whatever programming languages you decide to work in.
>>
>>>Know your weaknesses and have solutions in place before you go get the
>>>job.
>>>ItG?Ts a competitive environment out there and the people that can get the
>>>job
>>>done right in the shortest amount of time at the least cost are the ones
>>>that seem to rise to the top at least in my company. You need to know any
>>>limitations your disability places on you and you need to have a solution
>>>BEFORE you go to the job so it doesnG?Tt hurt you in your career and you
>>>can
>>>keep up with the normally sighted people. For example, my reading speed
>>>is
>>>about 130wpm. A normal person reads at about 250wpm. You can see it will
>>>take me twice as long reading as someone else. In my daily job, IG?Tm
>>>constantly reading code on the computer monitor. So you can see how a
>>>normal person without any vision issues will finish things before me.
>>>Doing
>>>your best in this case is not good enough because youG?Tll always be
>>>coming in
>>>last. And that equates to less money at your performance review. Trust
>>>me,
>>>I have 30+ years of experience to back me up on this. If you think
>>>Braille,
>>>for example, will help overcome slow reading, or using programs such as
>>>Jaws, learn it BEFORE you get to the job so thereG?Ts no chance of
>>>supervisors
>>>forming opinions of how you work.
>>
>>>Know that the job will eventually change, and sooner than later. In my
>>>job,
>>>new technologies are always coming up. The company is looking for faster
>>>and better ways of doing things. And that means theyG?Tre trying new
>>>programming languages, new things to make us meaner and leaner
>>>programmers.
>>>And that means that you have to learn quickly, and probably more often
>>>than
>>>you would like. You may be required (not by your employer but just by the
>>>fact that you have to keep up) to spend extra hours in the evening
>>>learning
>>>if you donG?Tt have enough time during the day. The years of learning a
>>>few
>>>things for your job and doing that for 5-10 years are gone. Figure on
>>>having to relearn your job every couple of years depending on what new
>>>thing
>>>is coming out. You have to ask yourself if you feel like keeping up like
>>>that all the time, or if your disability will put limitations on you
>>>there.
>>>You are definitely under pressure in these situations.
>>
>>>Be prepared to work overtime. If youG?Tre in a professional job such as I
>>>am
>>>and youG?Tre not as fast as others, itG?Ts going to take you more hours to
>>>do
>>>the same work in a time-frame that an employer considers normal. IG?Tve
>>>come
>>>to the conclusion I can probably never please my employer. Or, if you
>>>have
>>>to do the training thing, you may not get it all done in the course of 8
>>>hours. In my job, an 8 hour day is the thing of the past. I work more
>>>like
>>>a 10 hour day just to stay even .. to make up for my poor eyesight. Even
>>>with technology such as screen magnification and speech, and Braille, I
>>>still work a 10 hour day. With the demands of the job, itG?Ts just the
>>>standard.
>>
>>>So consider all these things. Perhaps you can assess your situation and
>>>justify going into computer programming. It is a good career, but to keep
>>>up and compete is a challenge. ItG?Ts even moreso with a vision
>>>disability in
>>>my opinion.
>>
>>>I don't want to throw cold water on things, but I've had a lot of
>>>frustration in my career. It's no fun when you come in second most of the
>>>time and people seem to move ahead of you and nothing seems to work.
>>
>>>---- Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>>>> When I was looking for work with my programming certificate, I got an
>>>> offer from the IRS, but the salary was very low, and any programming
>>>> would have to be approved by head office in DC. I declined the offer,
>>>> and soon got a much better one. Even though I started at a low,
>>>> trainee salary, it was still significantly better than the IRS was
>>>> offering. Though perhaps IRS salaries are the same across the country,
>>>> and only low when compared to average New York salaries.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>> > I googled tfor info on the program. A link is below. A one paragraph
>>>> > summary is as follows...
>>>> >
>>>> >> Program Description: The Programming curriculum prepares clients to
>>>> >> work
>>>> > in a wide range of programming
>>>> >> environments including .NET and JAVA, and other application
>>>> >> projects as
>>>> > well. Certification exams for JAVA and
>>>> >> Microsoft Certified Professional Developer (MCPD) are offered
>>>> >> through the
>>>> > program. Some prior programming
>>>> >> experience is helpful, but not necessary to be successful in this
>>>> >> course.
>>>> > This program often offers the opportunity to get
>>>> >> a commitment for employment with the Internal Revenue Service.
>>>> >
>>>> > http://lwsb.org/index.php/general-overview/vocational-catalog/#conte
>>>> > nt
>>>> >
>>>> > Wasn't it this list where we just had a huge debate about java? I'm
>>>> > thinking java programming might be making a huge comeback in writing
>>>> > apps for mobile phones. But I'll admit I don't really know what I'm
>>>> > talking about. I would note, however, that the link above indicates
>>>> > that the Lions web site itself is written in php, not .net or java.
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>>>> > Carcione
>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 9:38 AM
>>>> > To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>>> > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Career Advice
>>>> >
>>>> > Hi Daniel.
>>>> > I got a programming certificate, after I found I was going nowhere
>>>> > with my college degree. I looked around, and found a certificate
>>>> > course that taught the languages employers were looking for at the
>>>> > time. It was local, not out-of-state.
>>>> > If you do go to Lions World, try to make sure that they are teaching
>>>> > languages that will actually be in demand.
>>>> > Learning programming was a very good move for me. I have a secure
>>>> > job that pays well, and is usually interesting. I'm not sure if the
>>>> > IRS job pays well, or is interesting.
>>>> > My brother is also a blind programmer, working for subcontractors to
>>>> > the government. He gets paid OK, but gets laid off every few years.
>>>> > So your results may vary. But I think he'd rather be programming
>>>> > than having a rather dull but secure IRS job.
>>>> > HTH.
>>>> > Tracy
>>>> >
>>>> >> Hello Everyone:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I hope this is the appropriate forum for this question.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I am legally blind with a background in engineering and
>>>> >> manufacturing.
>>>> >> After
>>>> >> talking with many blind engineers, I find that many of them are
>>>> >> thriving computer programmers.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I am now trying to decide whether to go to Lions World in Little
>>>> >> Rock to take their 10 month computer programming course. My
>>>> >> counselor at my states agency for the blind wants me to go to Lions
>>>> >> World but to take one of their IRS courses, which would in essence
>>>> >> be a guaranteed job with the Feds.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I am the type of person who could do any job, at least that is what
>>>> >> my aptitude tests tell me.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What is life like for blind computer programmers? Do most work for
>>>> >> employers or as freelancers/contractors? Are there any languages in
>>>> >> particular I should focus on? Are there any other ways of learning
>>>> >> computer programming as a blind person than going out of state?
>>>> >> Learning on my own is just not working for me.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Any advice you can give would be appreciated.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Regards
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Daniel Garcia
>>>> >> Northville, MI
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
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>>>> >> et
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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