[nfbcs] Career Advice

Sat Oct 13 14:19:40 UTC 2012

Yes you are exactly correct.  What I was trying to get across is that the 
people I have known that are successful are the ones that put in the extra 
effort if you are blind or not.  Yes I know that many times blind people 
must put in a lot of extra work just to stay even, as have I.  I very well 
understand finding different and inventive ways to do our jobs.  My limited 
vision gros less and less as time goes on so I must continue to find 
different ways to do my job.  I look at it as if I do not have a choice, I 
want to work and keep working.  I applaud all the people out there that are 
working and willing to put in the extra effort.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Steve Jacobson
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:28 PM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Career Advice

David,

Perhaps I am wrong, but I think you missed the point on the "extra work" 
language.  In many jobs now, everyone works after hours which could be 
called
extra work in a way, but that isn't what I was thinking about.  I think the 
point that some of us are making is that to keep up, we need to do work that 
is
beyond the work that our sighted co-workers do in order to stay even.  That 
isn't meant to sound like a complaint, it is rather a plan to achieve 
success.  I
have seen blind people not willing to do that and it usually means they 
won't achieve the success they could achieve, and can even bring about 
failure.  I
also think we have to be honest with ourselves.  If we're in a field that is 
interesting, it can be fun, but sometimes it isn't fun but is a necessity. 
I do have to
keep my skills up to stay even with those of my co-workers.  However, I'm 
probably the only one of my co-workers who knows what needs to be done to
bring up Lotus Notes in basic mode which is more efficient with screen 
readers.  Most if not all of my sighted co-workers select text on a terminal 
emulation
screen to include in an e-mail with the mouse.  While I can do that, it 
isn't real efficient for me.  I took the time to learn the emulator's 
scripting language so
I could define a key to select specific amounts of text.  I, and I'm sure 
others, could list a number of other things like this where we need to spend 
some of
our own time to learn things that make us more efficient on the job.  I 
think this aspect of our jobs is very important to convey to people starting 
out.  Often
the process of learning these extra things not only makes us more efficient, 
but can result in having knowledge that can benefit others or bring a 
different
solution to a problem.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:02:43 -0500, david hertweck wrote:

>You know this talk about keeping your skills up.  I work in the R&D
>department and everyone does extra work and works on their own time, that 
>is
>just the norm.  I find it stimulating to keep up with my sighted caleegs .
>Do not look at it as extra work look at it as an opportunity to learn and
>grow.  For me I want to always move up and be doing different things.
>.

>depart your s

>-----Original Message----- 
>From: John G. Heim
>Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 1:21 PM
>To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Career Advice

>I pretty much agree with everything you say below although I might not 
>paint
>quite such a dark picture. But, yeah, I feel I've been successful in my
>career by working harder than everybody else, putting in extra time to make
>up for being slower than the sighted guys, and doing a lot of research on 
>my
>own time.

>I also agree with the point about keeping your skills up. There is this
>phenomenon I call "backwatering". New technologies tend to be inaccessible
>so a blind technologist doesn't get the assignment of working with them.
>Slowly, he becomes less and less crucial to his company because he's 
>working
>with old technology. Then when layoffs come around, he's the one to go. And
>in some ways, that's only fair. After all, he is the least important member
>of the team.

>IMO, its important to be very aggressive in pursuing new technologies. I
>taught myself on my own time almost all the skills I use in my current job.
>I am sure there are jobs where that isn't necessary but they are few and 
>far
>between. Also, to some degree it depends on what you want out of your
>career. I work for the University of Wisconsin and they don't layoff people
>very often. But a few years ago, I went to my boss and said I thought my
>skills were being wasted and that I could do a lot more, he said, "What's
>your problem? You're still getting paid, aren't you?" But I wasn't 
>satisfied
>just pulling down a paycheck. Plus, I figured that eventually they'd get
>around to getting rid of me. So I switched jobs and got into a different
>department.

>----Original Message-----
>From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of majolls at cox.net
>Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 11:31 AM
>To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>Cc: Tracy Carcione
>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Career Advice

>Working in the computer field is a challenging experience, especially for a
>blind person (well partially sighted in my case).  Here are some things to
>consider:

>Know your craft thoroughly.  Be as prepared with your programming languages
>as you possibly can be.  Corporations are looking for people that can solve
>a problem quickly and who know where to go look when they donG€™t know the
>answers.   Therefore, you need to be as knowledgeable as you possibly can 
>be
>in whatever programming languages you decide to work in.

>Know your weaknesses and have solutions in place before you go get the job.
>ItG€™s a competitive environment out there and the people that can get the 
>job
>done right in the shortest amount of time at the least cost are the ones
>that seem to rise to the top at least in my company.  You need to know any
>limitations your disability places on you and you need to have a solution
>BEFORE you go to the job so it doesnG€™t hurt you in your career and you 
>can
>keep up with the normally sighted people.  For example, my reading speed is
>about 130wpm.  A normal person reads at about 250wpm.  You can see it will
>take me twice as long reading as someone else.  In my daily job, IG€™m
>constantly reading code on the computer monitor.  So you can see how a
>normal person without any vision issues will finish things before me. 
>Doing
>your best in this case is not good enough because youG€™ll always be coming 
>in
>last.  And that equates to less money at your performance review.  Trust 
>me,
>I have 30+ years of experience to back me up on this.  If you think 
>Braille,
>for example, will help overcome slow reading, or using programs such as
>Jaws, learn it BEFORE you get to the job so thereG€™s no chance of 
>supervisors
>forming opinions of how you work.

>Know that the job will eventually change, and sooner than later.  In my 
>job,
>new technologies are always coming up.  The company is looking for faster
>and better ways of doing things.  And that means theyG€™re trying new
>programming languages, new things to make us meaner and leaner programmers.
>And that means that you have to learn quickly, and probably more often than
>you would like.  You may be required (not by your employer but just by the
>fact that you have to keep up) to spend extra hours in the evening learning
>if you donG€™t have enough time during the day.  The years of learning a 
>few
>things for your job and doing that for 5-10 years are gone.  Figure on
>having to relearn your job every couple of years depending on what new 
>thing
>is coming out.  You have to ask yourself if you feel like  keeping up like
>that all the time, or if your disability will put limitations on you there.
>You are definitely under pressure in these situations.

>Be prepared to work overtime.  If youG€™re in a professional job such as I 
>am
>and youG€™re not as fast as others, itG€™s going to take you more hours to 
>do
>the same work in a time-frame that an employer considers normal.  IG€™ve 
>come
>to the conclusion I can probably never please my employer.  Or, if you have
>to do the training thing, you may not get it all done in the course of 8
>hours.  In my job, an 8 hour day is the thing of the past.  I work more 
>like
>a 10 hour day just to stay even .. to make up for my poor eyesight.  Even
>with technology such as screen magnification and speech, and Braille, I
>still work a 10 hour day.  With the demands of the job, itG€™s just the
>standard.

>So consider all these things.  Perhaps you can assess your situation and
>justify going into computer programming.  It is a good career, but to keep
>up and compete is a challenge.  ItG€™s even moreso with a vision disability 
>in
>my opinion.

>I don't want to throw cold water on things, but I've had a lot of
>frustration in my career.  It's no fun when you come in second most of the
>time and people seem to move ahead of you and nothing seems to work.

>---- Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>> When I was looking for work with my programming certificate, I got an
>> offer from the IRS, but the salary was very low, and any programming
>> would have to be approved by head office in DC.  I declined the offer,
>> and soon got a much better one.  Even though I started at a low,
>> trainee salary, it was still significantly better than the IRS was
>> offering. Though perhaps IRS salaries are the same across the country,
>> and only low when compared to average New York salaries.
>> Tracy
>>
>> > I googled tfor info on the program. A link is below. A one paragraph
>> > summary is as follows...
>> >
>> >> Program Description: The Programming curriculum prepares clients to
>> >> work
>> > in a wide range of programming
>> >> environments including .NET and JAVA, and other application
>> >> projects as
>> > well. Certification exams for JAVA and
>> >> Microsoft Certified Professional Developer (MCPD) are offered
>> >> through the
>> > program. Some prior programming
>> >> experience is helpful, but not necessary to be successful in this
>> >> course.
>> > This program often offers the opportunity to get
>> >> a commitment for employment with the Internal Revenue Service.
>> >
>> > http://lwsb.org/index.php/general-overview/vocational-catalog/#conte
>> > nt
>> >
>> > Wasn't it this list where we just had a huge debate about java?  I'm
>> > thinking java programming might be making a huge comeback in writing
>> > apps for mobile phones.  But I'll admit I don't really know what I'm
>> > talking about. I would note, however, that the link above indicates
>> > that the Lions web site itself is written in php, not .net or java.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>> > Carcione
>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 9:38 AM
>> > To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Career Advice
>> >
>> > Hi Daniel.
>> > I got a programming certificate, after I found I was going nowhere
>> > with my college degree.  I looked around, and found a certificate
>> > course that taught the languages employers were looking for at the
>> > time.  It was local, not out-of-state.
>> > If you do go to Lions World, try to make sure that they are teaching
>> > languages that will actually  be in demand.
>> > Learning programming was a very good move for me.  I have a secure
>> > job that pays well, and is usually interesting.  I'm not sure if the
>> > IRS job pays well, or is interesting.
>> > My brother is also a blind programmer, working for subcontractors to
>> > the government.  He gets paid OK, but gets laid off every few years.
>> > So your results may vary. But I think he'd rather be programming
>> > than having a rather dull but secure IRS job.
>> > HTH.
>> > Tracy
>> >
>> >> Hello Everyone:
>> >>
>> >> I hope this is the appropriate forum for this question.
>> >>
>> >> I am legally blind with a background in engineering and manufacturing.
>> >> After
>> >> talking with many blind engineers, I find that many of them are
>> >> thriving computer programmers.
>> >>
>> >> I am now trying to decide whether to go to Lions World in Little
>> >> Rock to take their 10 month computer programming course. My
>> >> counselor at my states agency for the blind wants me to go to Lions
>> >> World but to take one of their IRS courses, which would in essence
>> >> be a guaranteed job with the Feds.
>> >>
>> >> I am the type of person who could do any job, at least that is what
>> >> my aptitude tests tell me.
>> >>
>> >> What is life like for blind computer programmers? Do most work for
>> >> employers or as freelancers/contractors? Are there any languages in
>> >> particular I should focus on? Are there any other ways of learning
>> >> computer programming as a blind person than going out of state?
>> >> Learning on my own is just not working for me.
>> >>
>> >> Any advice you can give would be appreciated.
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >>
>> >> Daniel Garcia
>> >> Northville, MI
>> >>
>> >>
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