[nfbcs] Math software

Tue Apr 9 14:42:30 UTC 2013

My opinion is that you're asking your questions in the wrong place. 
There is the blind math list for those interested in mathematics 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>. I think you'd get much better answers there.

I went back and reread your original post and I noticed you said you 
hadn't done any reaserch yet. That would almost certainly be a good 
thing to do. I know there is a product written by blind mathematicians 
that is for getting documents from Word for example into braille. See 
http://www.duxburysystems.com/megadots.asp. I only know about that 
because tI have been told one of the founders got her degree in math 
from the University of Wisconsin where I now work. But there might be 
other tools that I've never heard of.

It seems to me that the existence of the megadots system proves you're 
not crazy. It also looks like that megadots program is way out of date. 
The page says you can run it in 32 bit Windows 7  but it does not work 
for 64 bit versions of Windows. That is an obvious sign that the product 
needs to be updated.  But it could be that there is a competing product 
that being actively maintained and that's why megadots is not.

On 04/08/2013 11:09 AM, majolls at cox.net wrote:
> I see I'm getting a LOT of push-back on this topic.  My whole thrust to this topic was to think about putting the power in the student's hand to the extent possible, rather than making the student wait on others to assist.
>
> I'm not up on the rules and regs regarding what the schools are supposed to do by law (i..e provide large print books, Braille resources).  But that much I figured ... yes accomodations have to be made.  But what does a student do if they have to wait for these resources?  They could fall behind.  And what happens if a student does Braille, but the teacher doesn't ... and there aren't enough trained Braille instructors in a district to go around?  I've heard that's a problem because districts are trying to cut costs and eliminate specialized schools that teach blind students.  So if that's the case, who knows how many qualified teachers for the blind there will be?  Maybe not enough?  I don't know.
>
> The software I was thinking about would give the student and teacher tools to communicate ... without the teacher having to know Braille (if it was a requirement for the student).  The student could do the assignments, use a Braille device if needed, then have the software translate back to regular text for the teacher.  The Braille instructor wouldn't be obsolete, but if there ever was a time where one was unavailable, the student could perhaps still do the work and the software could back-translate the work to the form the regular teacher could handle if they didn't know Braille (which I have heard is case sometimes).
>
> The student could also get help from the software to work through the problems.  So if they didn't know how to solve a problem, having the "solution solver" would be helpful so they could ... hopefully ... independently do the homework.  And this software could ... if designed correctly .. allow the teacher to design tests, quizzes, etc.  The teacher simply composes, saves, and the student accesses the material on his or her own terms.  Again, I don't see the braille instructor being replaced ... but the software could help if one wasn't availalbe at the moment.
>
> I honestly don't see the big beef about this topic.  Isn't the whole thrust of the NFB to encourage students to excel in the STEM curriculum?  Wouldn't it be a good thing to provide them with tools that allow them to succeed independently?  I'm not suggesting that the accomodations that are in place be changed.  I'm just saying ... consider a tool that would give the student some help.  Maybe I'm just wet, but I get a bit excited when I find a way that I can do something I want to do and I don't have to wait on someone else or be dependent because of my vision.  I thought this idea might help a student work on their own and maybe open this subject to them just a bit.
>
> Maybe I'm just bucking a system that is inflexible and sees such a product as a threat to their existence.  Maybe people really don't want to change the status quo.
>
> Comments welcome.
> ---- "Hyde wrote:
>> This is an IEP issue. It also is a good opportunity for self-advocacy. It is required that the text be accessible. Parents and student need to talk to the TVI and the school. Taking the book home is an IEP issue IBID. As much as some schools and some teachers think that software is the solution, it isn't. You can contact me off list, or you can get help from teachers on the teachers and educators' lists.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Torcolini
>> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 4:39 PM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Math software
>>
>> My responses written inline.
>>
>> I was at our NFB chapter meeting the other night and some of the kids I was chatting with were saying how difficult it is to do math.
>>
>> I could relate since I remember sitting in class when I had zero technology and couldn't read the board ... you sort of just zone out.
>>
>> Someone needs to tell the teacher that he/she needs to read what is on the board. If that is not enough, then the students should be allowed to have a notetaker. I did ot have a notetaker in high school, but I did in several of my college classes, particularly the math/science ones.
>>
>> They told me that some of the schools (high school I believe) don't let you take the book home.  And since they can't see what's going on in the class and can't take the book home, they struggle terribly.
>>
>> That's ridiculous. Even if that is what the rules are, sometimes acceptions can be made. It's called accommodations.
>>
>> Also, some were saying even if they could take the book, they couldn't read it, and some said their parents didn't know enough math to help them.
>> Bottom line, math was a huge struggle for these kids.
>>
>>   Why aren't TVIs working with these students to help them find a method of reading/writing math that works for them?
>>
>> I haven't done any searching, but I was wondering if there are software solutions out there that could allow some of the following:
>>
>> I agree that it is a good thought, but I am not sure that software is necessarily the solution, or, if it is, that it is the only thing that needs to be done.
>>
>> 1. The textbook is in accessible format so that a student can access it at home or at school with Jaws/Braille.
>>
>> 2. Allows the teacher to compose lessons - when the student can't read the book and doesn't have access to an electronic version of the book.
>>
>> 3. Allows teacher (as part of composition) to enter the problems to be solved in a "problem set".
>>
>> 4. Teacher should be able to save to disk, web, etc
>>
>> 4. Allows students to access the lessons from disk/web and problems composed by the teacher.
>>
>> 5. If student can't solve the problem presented, have an automated "solution solver" that will take student step by step through the solution.
>>
>> Student should be able to see a line by line solution so they can see the steps necessary to solve the problem.
>>
>> 6. Allow student to work the problems and have computer check the solution and tell student when right or wrong.
>>
>> 7. If homework, allow student to compose solution and save to disk or upload to web.
>>
>> 8. Allow teacher to access students work for grading.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anybody know if something like this is available?  Granted, this would NOT be trivial software to write, but having something like this would allow the students to deal with complex math such as elementary algebra, intermediate algebra, trig, etc, and get it in a format they can deal with.
>> I think I would have found this useful back in the stone age when I was in high school.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anybody know of anything?  Or, would you reply.... "you're a software guy, write it!".
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
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