[nfbcs] Math software

Wed Apr 10 15:02:00 UTC 2013

Hi Mike, it's funny you should mention such a project. I've been working on one similar project for about six months now, however my idea may be a bit different from yours but I do have a working prototype for addition and subtraction, whole numbers and decimal numbers. If you're interested, maybe we could exchange information and somehow work together. My Math idea so far has a student addition and a teacher's addition. It runs on Windows, MAC, Linux, Braille Sense, PAC Mate Omni, and Android. So again, if you're interested, email me off-list and I'll be happy to correspond with you. I do agree, the project and the work required is quite huge, so I'm not just running my mouth here, I'm actually interested and doing it.
Best,
Louis

----- Original Message -----
From: John G. Heim <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List nfbcs at nfbnet.org
Date: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:47 am
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Math software

>
>
> I'm glad to hear you say these things, mike. I actually began several 
> messages saying esssentially what you say below but each time decided 
> against sending them. I didn't want to sound negative. But I do think 
> it's important to be realistic. Personally, as President of the 
> International Association of Visually Impaired Technologists, I've seen 
> a particular pattern far too many times. Someone gets very excited, 
> begins a project, and goes great gonzo on it for a few weeks or months. 
> Then when the enthusiasm fades, so does the project. On the other hand, 
> almost all open source projects start with one passionate person.
> 
> I also think you should clarify your idea and plans a little. I don't 
> think you can develop a system  until you've clearly defined the problem 
> and your solution. And that's going to take some research. You're going 
> to reinvent the wheel if you don't do this. Or you might   solve a 
> problem that doesn't need to be solved.
> 
> But if I understand your idea and from what little research I've done, 
> it seems to me you have identified a need.  I'll admit I don't know too 
> much about this stuff but if your basic idea is to make it possible for 
> a math student to take anything an instructor throws at her and turn it 
> into braille, that seems valuable to me. The ADA not withstanding, that 
> seems like a good thing. In fact, it seems odd that anyone in the NFB 
> would find anything objectionable in that. It seems to me that the NFB 
> should be the most enthusiastic group of all toward a project like that.
> 
> Furthermore, I'd say the existance of the megadots software and the fact 
> that it's apparently so out of date is confirmation of the value of your 
> idea.  From what I can gather of your idea, it sounds a lot like what 
> megadots does except that megadots isn't open source and its way out of 
> date. So I'm all for it. In fact, if there is anything we at the 
> International Association of Visually Impaired Technologists can do to 
> help. let me know. I can offer you web resources if that's any help. I 
> don't knwo what else we can do but if you have any ideas, let me know.
> 
> One more thing... There is money out there for projects like this. The 
> Open Software Foundation and Google have grant programs. Those are just 
> two sources of grants. There are many more. I personally have never 
> applied for one of these grants but I've worked with people through 
> IAVIT on getting them. So you might consider applying for grant money if 
> that would be helpful.
> 
> On 04/09/2013 04:42 PM, Mike Jolls wrote:
> > I'm not going to argue one bit with what you have said.  I have taken on a
> > couple of mammoth projects in past years ... not realizing the enormity of
> > the project.  One project I took on was a "code generator".  I wanted to be
> > able to design application forms, and then have the system  generate the
> > code necessary to make the forms work, and generate code that tied the menus
> > and windows to "shell programs" that the system would generate and call, and
> > that the programmer could enhance with his business logic.  I was trying to
> > do this so that where I work, we could prototype our applications faster.  I
> > worked on it for four years and then Microsoft came out with Visual Basic
> > and Visual C++.  I didn't realize how many problems I'd have to solve when I
> > started, but I found out that to make it easy to use, a LOT had to be
> > written ... more than I realized.  That project came to a dead stop once the
> > Microsoft products came out.  Microsoft could put 50 people on a project
> > whereas I was just one person trying to do it all.
> >
> > As a result of that particular project, I coined the phrase ... "easy is
> > hard".  That meant ... "if it's easy on you the user, it's REALLY hard on
> > me.  To make a software package really usable and intuitive, there is a LOT
> > of work that the programmer has to do.  So I'm not going into this with my
> > eyes closed.  It is a big undertaking to be certain.  And you're right.
> > It's not just the math ... which is by itself a lot of work.  It's also the
> > Nemeth coding too.  And as I said, it might be too big.  But I do appreciate
> > your thoughts.  I think they are valid.
> >
> > Thanks for all your replies.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 2:25 PM
> > To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Math software
> >
> > Currently, there are challenges to be overcome with all approaches to
> > educating blind children, particularly in math.  I, for one, would not want
> > to discourage you from looking at alternative ways of solving the problem.
> > On the other hand, if you have the tallent to come up with a solution, I
> > don't want to see such a tallent wasted, either, if it seems there might be
> > roadblocks that are hard to circumvent.  My first reaction to what you have
> > written is that this is really a huge projecteaand I also feel that
> > expressing the goal is far easier than meeting that goal.  Some of what you
> > are detecting in responses is skepticism that what you are proposing can be
> > achieved in a way that will be accepted by those who must accept it.  I
> > don't know if you have ever looked at the Henter Math software, but I
> > thought it did a pretty nice job of letting a blind person interact with a
> > problem in a way that provided the ability to sort of emulate how the
> > problem was solved on the blackboard.  I'm not saying this software did what
> > you are trying to do as it is more basic, but my reason for mentioning it is
> > that it only had limited success.  It would probably be worth learning more
> > about that product, how it was marketed and what successes and failures were
> > experienced.
> >
> > The problem of converting Nemeth to print and print to Nemeth is also a
> > thorny one.  There is at least one person on this list who has some
> > experience with converting Nemeth into other mathematical notation, but I
> > will leave it to that person to choose whether or not to comment.  One would
> > have to consider, with younger children especially, how to translate Nemeth
> > into print in a relaxed matter that would avoid having a small Nemeth
> > mistake totally mess up the print version.  A mainstream instructor is not
> > going to be knowledgeable as to how forgetting a dot might have a major
> > impact on backtranslation.
> >
> > I am having some trouble envisioning how your problem solving logic would
> > work.  if there is more than one way to solve a given problem and the blind
> > student learns a method that is different than what the class is learning,
> > it may limit his or her ability to get information from class activities
> > from that point forward.  I've had to deal with this when trying to assist
> > my kids.  I sometimes simply had to step back from helping them because I
> > knew how to solve the problem but it was so different than how their teacher
> > solved it that teaching it to them would have added to their confusion.  Is
> > a blind student better off learning to solve a problem in an alternative way
> > rather than not at all?  Perhaps, but if the situation is that bleak there
> > are probably some larger issues that affect more than math.
> >
> > You would also need to make some decisions about platform.  In two years,
> > will kids be primarily using iPads?  Standalone note takers would seem to be
> > the ideal platform in many ways, but many feel they are on their way out and
> > there are challenges in developing software on those platforms.  What impact
> > does the platform chosen impact the ability to leverage work that has
> > already been done, particularly in moving between Nemeth and print, and the
> > ability for a sighted instructor to generate Nemeth reliably?
> >
> > Finally, college math students have taken a number of paths to deal with
> > exchanging math documents with instructors.  However, I don't think the
> > approaches being used are necessarily approaches that will work for younger
> > children or for those who may be learning math only as a casual requirement.
> > Still, there is a lot to explore that might give you ideas upon which to
> > build.  You might try the BlMath list to get a sense of what is already
> > being done.  Also, someone mentioned the Braille Blaster project, and one of
> > its components is definitely to allow movement between Nemeth and print, but
> > that is also a large project that is trying to do a lot.
> >
> >  From my perspective, if you can truly do what you have set out to do in a
> > reasonable amount of time in a way that does not require too much extra work
> > for the mainstream math instructor, it's probably worth a try.  I'm just a
> > little afraid that you are glossing over some aspects of the problem that
> > will not be so easily solved.  If I had a vote to determine what you would
> > do, though, my vote would be for you to research what is already underway
> > and see how your tallent could be used to bring some of the current efforts
> > to fruition sooner.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Steve Jacobson
> >
> > On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 05:53:08 com0500, Mike Jolls wrote:
> >
> >> I'll reply to Mike's last reply and add some comments in general.
> >
> >> Let me expand the thread a bit and say that my question as to whether
> >> software would be useful was more than just a question.  You see, after
> >> I spoke with these kids at our chapter meeting, and came up with my
> >> idea of the teacher/student interaction aspect of the software, I
> >> started to investigate writing a "math expression solver" engine.  The
> >> math expression solver is fundamental to the success of such a system
> >> (i.e. the ability to simplify a sub-part of an overall problem so you
> >> can re-write the problem in steps in order to show the problem solution
> >> to the student).  What I'm proposing won't be possible without this engine,
> > so I began working on it.
> >> I was able to find some advanced computer science texts which laid out
> >> how simple calculator logic was programmed, and I began to work on such
> >> a project.  As I said in earlier posts, the project is not easy, but it
> >> is possible.  The project is definitely in its infancy, but what I have
> >> right now is a project that ... given an expression such as (3ininggblee+2))
> >> ... can solve that expression.  This is just the very very very
> >> beginning.  If any of you have had upper level math, you know what I'm
> >> talking about.  There are variables to deal with, functions, many other
> >> topics.  But before I went too far, I wanted to see if it was even
> > worthwhile pursuing such a topic.
> >> After all, if people are so entrenched in the current system that they
> >> are totally inflexible, well it might not be worth all the effort such
> >> a project will demand.  And it WILL demand work.  No question there.
> >> But I believe I see that this is possible ... after all ... look at
> >> Mathematica.  There is a package that does many complex mathematical
> >> tasks.  So I think that what I'm putting forth here is doable.  But it
> >> will take a significant amount of work.  After all, some people said
> >> we'd never go to the moon, yet we did with work and effort.
> >
> >> The point is well made that conversion of Braille to print and back
> >> will not be easy.  However, assuming that Nemeth Braille is used for
> >> the representation of mathematical statements, I have to believe there
> >> is a way to perform these conversions.  From what I've read, Mr. Nemeth
> >> was able to develop a system by which he could represent any
> >> mathematical problem in Braille.  We already know that in print you can
> >> do that.  We have hundreds of years of experience there.  I have to
> >> believe again that bridging the gap and translating is possible.  The
> >> work will likely be difficult.  I have seen many complex sets of data
> >> represented in computer code over my 35 years of professional work, so I
> > think this can be done, but it won't be easy.
> >> The suggestion to look in the "non-commercial" groups to see what
> >> problems have already been solved is a good one so I don't reinvent the
> > wheel.
> >
> >> I can recall many times over the years ... before there was all of this
> >> accessibility and accomodation ...  back in the 1970's (yes I know the
> >> stone
> >> age) that I had teachers who didn't want to be bothered by my problem
> >> of low vision.  Even though you told them .. "I need help" ... they
> >> just sort of had the attitude that you had to make out the best you
> >> could, figure things out for yourself, and then let your level of
> > achievement fall where it may.
> >> I think college was the worst because the teachers had their own
> >> agendas and back then, you didn't have all the awareness you do today.
> >> There were a few professors who saw the potential and went the extra
> >> mile, but I found that more the exception than the rule.  You were
> >> basically on your own.  I've seen that attitude professionally as well
> >> too many times.  In other words, sink or swim, but you're on your own to
> > rise to the level you're capable of.
> >> Some instructors will work with you, read you the problems, etc.  A lot
> >> (in my experience anyway) won't.  When you can't depend on the teachers
> >> to help you, you have to be able to do it yourself.  I saw this project
> >> as being the student's ability to overcome those issues to some extent.
> >> I saw it as the ability for the student who wanted to do well to be
> >> able to independently study the math.  Also, to communicate with the
> >> teacher in their language (i.e. non-Braille) so that those teachers
> >> that weren't really interested in, or didn't have the time to learn
> >> Braille, wouldn't have to.  The lack of interest by the teacher
> >> wouldn't kill the students ability to keep up.  That way, if the
> >> student didn't have access to a Braille instructor or helper for a
> >> period of time, they could fall back to what I'm proposing and still
> >> survive.  The student could work the problems, have Braille support if
> >> they needed it through the software, and then send it back to the
> >> teacher in print so that the teacher could simply treat the student as
> >> any other student.  Such a system, I believe would give the student a level
> > of independence that would help them succeed.
> >
> >> I remember when I was in college taking math.  I couldn't see the
> >> board.  I couldn't see what the teacher was writing.  Back in the 70's,
> >> there weren't a lot of accessible aids like there are today.  Today I
> >> have a telescope mounted in a pair of glasses that helps me
> >> tremendously deal with reading the board.  I can actually sit halfway
> >> back in the room and see what's on the board.  I sure couldn't do that
> >> 40 years ago.  In high school, I zoned out because I couldn't see what
> >> was going on.  It wasn't until college that I realized that I could
> >> level the playing field if I read the books on my own, took the
> >> responsibility upon myself to read the book and do the problems, and
> >> educate myself so that when I went to class I knew what I didn't
> >> understand and could ask intelligent questions.  When I did that, I
> >> started getting A's in math.  I got A's with that approach up through
> >> Calculus and Diff. Eq.  When I heard that blind students were
> >> struggling with math, I realized that they needed a method to be able
> >> to independently study the topics when their classroom experience was
> >> falling short so they could do what I did.  I was hoping this project could
> > help give them a tool they could use to do what I'm talking about.
> >
> >> And that's why I posted the question.  Would people see value in such a
> >> project?  Would it be worth working on?  Even though it has been a lot
> >> of work just doing what I've done so far, it might be worth it if it
> >> could help alleviate a student's frustration and help them to succeed.
> >
> >> Anyway, that's my motivation.  I've said too much.
> >
> >> Comments welcome.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> >> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 4:21 PM
> >> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Math software
> >
> >> tami:
> >> I am not nearly as sanguine as you are regarding the promise of
> >> software to facilitate translation of braille math into print
> >> unambiguously or provide an easy means of rendering math by blind
> >> students intelligible to the sighted except in simple cases because,
> >> whether we wish to admit it or not, there is considerable variability
> >> in the way math is written in print and also because braille, no matter
> >> which code is used, has no foolproof means of rendering arbitrary math
> >> symbols into print. It is easier going the other way but judgment is still
> > often required.
> >> I am glad the projects you cite are underway but I think it'll be a
> >> tougher nut to crack than many believe.
> >
> >> Mike Freeman
> >> sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Apr 8, 2013, at 13:55, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> Mike,
> >>>
> >>> Mulling this one over, I tend to agree with you about the importance
> >>> of
> >> access to texts and other learning materials, as well as the ability to
> >> produce homework independently. I see many of the points others have
> >> raised about the system in which the problems students are facing
> >> exist, and we need to keep chipping away at those issues, too. But
> >> independent access to the materials can go a long, long way in getting
> >> around negative attitudes and failures of the system. Software can go
> >> an awfully long way towards making that independent access possible!
> >>>
> >>> As for software, there are some really good projects under active
> >> development for math/science accessibility, including liblouis,
> >> BrailleBlaster, Infty and others. Some are braille intensive, while
> >> others focus on audio access. I think there is a place for both,
> >> although I strongly prefer braille myself.
> >>>
> >>> I see these projects as promising ways to open up math and science to
> >>> a
> >> broader range of students and even just us older folks who want to play
> >> with math cuz that's how we are. It's becoming more and more possible
> >> to just scan a text and be able to read it in either braille or audio!
> >> Or to produce mathematic and scientific notation in documents without
> >> having to learn LaTex and whatever else first. Add tactile graphics,
> >> and a blind student has a fighting chance to learn and even to be
> >> competitive and still have time to eat and sleep...
> >>>
> >>> The open source projects also take a big bite out of the cost
> >>> involved in
> >> math/science access... That still leaves the cost of the hardware,
> >> which is not at all cheap. However... Compared to the cost of
> >> transcribing and embossing a single paper braille text, it can start
> >> looking downright cost effective!
> >>>
> >>> I'm not aware of anything like the interactive learning components
> >>> you
> >> mention being available at the k12 level... Which doesn't mean much,
> >> since that is off my radar. We do have parents of blind students on the
> >> blind math list wanting to learn how to assist their children, and I
> >> think some educators at that level who discuss the issues there. I find
> >> it interesting but honestly haven't paid huge attention to the ins and
> > outs.
> >>>
> >>> Will software solve the problems with the school system? Nope! But if
> >> students can get their hands on access to the learning materials and be
> >> able to produce homework without having to rely on the system, then
> >> that's a help for those who wish to learn and compete — even excel —
> > anyway.
> >>>
> >>> Will software change the negative attitudes behind the problems with
> >>> the
> >> education system? No, but those students who compete and excel will
> >> eventually become convincing. When I was that young, everyone knew
> >> women weren't fit for math or the sciences, after all. Now? Why
> >> wouldn't a woman be good at that? Why would anyone have thought
> >> otherwise? So as blind students and blind professionals become more
> >> competitive, it will become obvious that a blind person can be competitive.
> > Not tomorrow, but in time.
> >>>
> >>> Of course, we're also facing overall cultural attitudes towards
> >>> education
> >> in general and expecially math and science. Layer that over the
> >> additional attitudes towards blindness and the access issues that blind
> >> students face, and I think that anything at all that can enable any
> >> young person to learn in those fields is gold. Yes, we need to keep
> >> fighting on all fronts for the education system to work to educate and
> >> to do what is needed to educate blind students. Meanwhile, a lot of
> >> students are on their own — or their parents are. If they don't have
> >> to wait on the system to provide the basic learning materials, that's one
> > less way they can be held up by it.
> >>>
> >>> And, yes, software can bridge that barrier.
> >>>
> >>> Tami
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 04/08/2013 09:09 AM, majolls at cox.net wrote:
> >>>> I see I'm getting a LOT of push-back on this topic.  My whole thrust
> >>>> to
> >> this topic was to think about putting the power in the student's hand
> >> to the extent possible, rather than making the student wait on others to
> > assist.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not up on the rules and regs regarding what the schools are
> >>>> supposed
> >> to do by law (i.ance provide large print books, Braille resources).  But
> >> that much I figured ... yes accomodations have to be made.  But what
> >> does a student do if they have to wait for these resources?  They could
> >> fall behind.  And what happens if a student does Braille, but the
> >> teacher doesn't ... and there aren't enough trained Braille instructors
> >> in a district to go around?  I've heard that's a problem because
> >> districts are trying to cut costs and eliminate specialized schools
> >> that teach blind students.  So if that's the case, who knows how many
> >> qualified teachers for the blind there will be?  Maybe not enough?  I don't
> > know.
> >>>>
> >>>> The software I was thinking about would give the student and teacher
> >> tools to communicate ... without the teacher having to know Braille (if
> >> it was a requirement for the student).  The student could do the
> >> assignments, use a Braille device if needed, then have the software
> >> translate back to regular text for the teacher.  The Braille instructor
> >> wouldn't be obsolete, but if there ever was a time where one was
> >> unavailable, the student could perhaps still do the work and the
> >> software could back-translate the work to the form the regular teacher
> >> could handle if they didn't know Braille (which I have heard is case
> > sometimes).
> >>>>
> >>>> The student could also get help from the software to work through
> >>>> the
> >> problems.  So if they didn't know how to solve a problem, having the
> >> "solution solver" would be helpful so they could ... hopefully ...
> >> independently do the homework.  And this software could ... if designed
> >> correctly .. allow the teacher to design tests, quizzes, etc.  The
> >> teacher simply composes, saves, and the student accesses the material
> >> on his or her own terms.  Again, I don't see the braille instructor
> >> being replaced ... but the software could help if one wasn't availalbe at
> > the moment.
> >>>>
> >>>> I honestly don't see the big beef about this topic.  Isn't the whole
> >> thrust of the NFB to encourage students to excel in the STEM curriculum?
> >> Wouldn't it be a good thing to provide them with tools that allow them
> >> to succeed independently?  I'm not suggesting that the accomodations
> >> that are in place be changed.  I'm just saying ... consider a tool that
> >> would give the student some help.  Maybe I'm just wet, but I get a bit
> >> excited when I find a way that I can do something I want to do and I
> >> don't have to wait on someone else or be dependent because of my
> >> vision.  I thought this idea might help a student work on their own and
> >> maybe open this subject to them just a bit.
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe I'm just bucking a system that is inflexible and sees such a
> >> product as a threat to their existence.  Maybe people really don't want
> >> to change the status quo.
> >>>>
> >>>> Comments welcome.
> >>>> ---- "Hyde wrote:
> >>>>> This is an IEP issue. It also is a good opportunity for self-advocacy.
> >> It is required that the text be accessible. Parents and student need to
> >> talk to the TVI and the school. Taking the book home is an IEP issue
> >> IBID. As much as some schools and some teachers think that software is
> >> the solution, it isn't. You can contact me off list, or you can get
> >> help from teachers on the teachers and educators' lists.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole
> >> Torcolini
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 4:39 PM
> >>>>> To: 'Ationfb in Computer Science Mailing List'
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Math software
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My responses written inline.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I was at our NFB chapter meeting the other night and some of the
> >>>>> kids I
> >> was chatting with were saying how difficult it is to do math.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I could relate since I remember sitting in class when I had zero
> >> technology and couldn't read the board ... you sort of just zone out.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Someone needs to tell the teacher that he/she needs to read what is
> >>>>> on
> >> the board. If that is not enough, then the students should be allowed
> >> to have a notetaker. I did ot have a notetaker in high school, but I
> >> did in several of my college classes, particularly the math/science ones.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They told me that some of the schools (high school I believe) don't
> >>>>> let
> >> you take the book home.  And since they can't see what's going on in
> >> the class and can't take the book home, they struggle terribly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That's ridiculous. Even if that is what the rules are, sometimes
> >> acceptions can be made. It's called accommodations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Also, some were saying even if they could take the book, they
> >>>>> couldn't
> >> read it, and some said their parents didn't know enough math to help them.
> >>>>> Bottom line, math was a huge struggle for these kids.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   Why aren't TVIs working with these students to help them find a
> >>>>> method
> >> of reading/writing math that works for them?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I haven't done any searching, but I was wondering if there are
> >>>>> software
> >> solutions out there that could allow some of the following:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I agree that it is a good thought, but I am not sure that software
> >>>>> is
> >> necessarily the solution, or, if it is, that it is the only thing that
> >> needs to be done.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1. The textbook is in accessible format so that a student can
> >>>>> access it
> >> at home or at school with Jaws/Braille.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2. Allows the teacher to compose lessons — when the student can't
> >>>>> read
> >> the book and doesn't have access to an electronic version of the book.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 3. Allows teacher (as part of composition) to enter the problems to
> >>>>> be
> >> solved in a "problem set".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 4. Teacher should be able to save to disk, web, etc
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 4. Allows students to access the lessons from disk/web and problems
> >> composed by the teacher.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 5. If student can't solve the problem presented, have an automated
> >> "solution solver" that will take student step by step through the solution.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Student should be able to see a line by line solution so they can
> >>>>> see
> >> the steps necessary to solve the problem.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 6. Allow student to work the problems and have computer check the
> >> solution and tell student when right or wrong.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 7. If homework, allow student to compose solution and save to disk
> >>>>> or
> >> upload to web.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 8. Allow teacher to access students work for grading.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does anybody know if something like this is available?  Granted,
> >>>>> this
> >> would NOT be trivial software to write, but having something like this
> >> would allow the students to deal with complex math such as elementary
> >> algebra, intermediate algebra, trig, etc, and get it in a format they can
> > deal with.
> >>>>> I think I would have found this useful back in the stone age when I
> >>>>> was
> >> in high school.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anybody know of anything?  Or, would you reply.... "you're a
> >>>>> software
> >> guy, write it!".
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> for
> >> nfbcs:
> >>>>>
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab
> >> le.co
> >>>>> m
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> for
> >> nfbcs:
> >>>>>
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/david.hyde%40wcbvi.k
> >> 12.wi
> >> .us
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> for
> >> nfbcs:
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/majolls%40cox.ne
> >>>>> t
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>
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> >
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> >
> >
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> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40vis
> >> i.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
> 
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