[nfbcs] [IDevices] Your Help Is Needed, Apple Feedback
Steve Jacobson
steve.jacobson at visi.com
Thu Aug 29 20:21:12 UTC 2013
Kevin,
My work email is not tied to my iPhone and is a different number so I am entering it in the traditional mode by dialing an access
number and entering an ID. I am aware of the voicemail option associated with my iPhone. Yes, I do use touch typing, and dealing
with my work voicemail by entering the ID is manageable. I was just observing that particular activity has gotten more difficult
as I first moved to a phone with a small QWERTY keyboard and now with the touch screen. I find that frustrating but manageable.
I did switch to the touch typing mode and do like that much better except when on a bus or in a car where rough roads often cause
keys to be registered by accident. <smile>
Thanks to both you and Mike for describing how to mute the microphone. I also recognize that with our local BusLine, I might well
be able to get the information I most often need by bookmarking the appropriate schedule and accessing it through Safari. In the
long run, I may well like that approach better.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:27:31 -0500, Kevin Fjelsted wrote:
>Steve;
>I am curious about the Voicemail you are using. I don't have to enter any I.D., because there is a VoiceMail tab under the phone
app which when activated shows all the messages available.
>At this point selecting the messages immediately plays them with no requirement to log in.
>Regarding the keypad, are you using "touch typing mode?" I find this mode to be much faster because I can slide my finger around
the keypad or keyboard until I find the correct character or number and then just lift up. Thus spacial reference on a keypad
doesn't need to be spot on just fairly close.
>Regarding muting, the Apple headphones do have a different size plug so standard headphones won't fool the remote or microphone.
> When the call is activated/connected, one can press the "hide keypad" button the mute as well as other controls are exposed so
one can mute the microphone, unhide the keypad and enter numbers if desired.
>-Kevin
>
>On Aug 29, 2013, at 10:34 AM, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
>> Kevin,
>>
>> Interestingly, I played around with this some and found that a bluetooth keyboard can select and push keypad buttons by
navigating
>> to them with the arrow keys. This is probably still too slow for long strings of numbers but can work more efficiently in some
>> cases than using the touch keypad. I also found that the numbers on a bluetooth keyboard can be used to enter a number before
>> dialing, and even to enter the digits of one's pass code. As a programmer, I can accept that the keypad that is visible after
a
>> call is complete may be different that that displayed before and during a call even if it looks similarly, but this isn't a
>> logical assumption for a user to make.
>>
>> Another aspect of this that I've seen that can cause difficulty is that some systems are geared to accept numbers or voice
input
>> such as BusLine here in the Twin Cities with which you are likely familiar. Even if the menu options don't time out as such,
slow
>> entry causes that system to try to interpret background sounds. Muting the microphone would probably help this situation,
some.
>> I suspect that you are right that the inputting of numbers in those situations from a keyboard is not something that has been
>> disabled by design. Where I also agree with Jim is that we sometimes react quickly to a problem without necessarily
understanding
>> the entire problem. However, I also completely understand the frustration of some, and I think we have to realize that while
>> Apple has shown us that using a touch device is more than just possible, there are aspects of this that we don't fully
understand
>> yet. It is my belief, for example, perhaps founded more on observation than real scientific fact, that since we are going to
>> depend some on our memory of where buttons and controls are to gain efficiency, those of us who are lucky enough to have a good
>> sense of spacial relationships are going to do better than those who have less of that ability. For a sighted user, spacial
>> relationships are not an issue since they are locating buttons visually and touching them. Therefore, the sighted person who
>> finds reading maps to be frustrating because they have a poor sense of spacial relationships will not have a problem with using
a
>> touch screen, while a blind person with that same lack of ability will have more trouble navigating a touch screen efficiently.
>>
>> I also find that an earphone is an essential tool. Again, going back to Busline, I depend upon being able to hear what is
being
>> spoken as a cue that my input has been received. For example, entering a response before the system has finished the menu
causes
>> it to stop reading. When holding the phone so that buttons are seen visually, one cannot hear responses as easily, but of
course,
>> placing the phone near one's ear disables the touch screen as it has to. My thought was that the answer is to use an earphone
>> that does not have a microphone for such purposes. The iPhone is too smart for that, though, as it seems to know when one uses
>> regular stereo earphones without a microphone and it leaves its internal microphone enabled, so I still have trouble with slow
>> responses on the keypad causing the system to which I am connected to try to process audio input. I miss having a simple
"mute"
>> button.
>>
>> If we, as people with a technical background, are able to adequately explain that a given feature is not a simple thing to
>> implement, thereby causing consumers to approach a developer or manufacturer more reasonably, we should by all means do that.
>> However, I don't think it is our job to tell consumers that something can't be done easily when we don't really know how easily
it
>> could be accomplished. I am very glad that I can do so much more with my iPhone than I could do with the first couple of
>> cellphones I owned. However, I find it frustrating that each of the last three phones I have used has made checking my work
>> voicemail where I have to enter a 6-digit ID a slower process.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 17:41:15 -0500, Kevin Fjelsted wrote:
>>
>>> SInce there is an edit field where numbers are displayed the change could probably be made fairly easy to support number entry
>> from the BlueTooth keyboard.
>>> I think the larger issue which would require programming is that the user interface for the keyboard is tied to the same
>> mechanism that permits the on screen keyboard to be visible or hidden in tandem with the BLueTooth keyboard.
>>> Thus Apple may not be considering this because the keypad is totally different than the keyboard mode.
>>
>>> I find menu options to be quite straight forward and even short pin numbers or passwords up to say 7 numbers in length.
>>> I do find that longer fields such as entering a meeting i.d., for a service such as "go to meeting" which may have 12 to 15
>> digits can time out by the time I get that done.
>>> I definitely believe that using a headset or earphone helps especially in noisier environments.
>>> -Kevin
>>
>>> On Aug 28, 2013, at 5:27 PM, "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Jim,
>>>>
>>>> The trouble is, I'm not sure that any of us would say we can dial as quickly with the touch keypad with voiceOver as one can
>> visually. However, I'm not sure the answer is as simple as allowing a bluetooth
>>>> keyboard during phone calls, either. I'd really like to know whether there is a reason that this isn't permitted as there
>> might be a good one. Be that as it may, though, I am bothered a little if you feel that we
>>>> don't have the right to ask for a feature that might be useful to us simply as customers. To me, to make a case that this is
>> an accessibility issue might be stretching it, but we are now customers, and with my
>>>> great big two months of experience with an iPhone under my belt, I do find that interacting with places that require
>> significant data entry using the numeric keypad to be difficult at times. I am continuing to get
>>>> better, though.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 09:25:29 -0700, Barcore wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey Susie,
>>>>
>>>>> Can you explain how this is impacting blind people specifically? Why are we not able to simply use the numbers on the on
>> screen keyboard With a pair of headphones? I understand that if you have a
>>>> Bluetooth keyboard, it would be more convenient to use those numbers. However, is this any different than it would be for
>> sighted folks?
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 28, 2013, at 7:35 AM, "Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO" <Susan.Stanzel at kcc.usda.gov> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Listers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know this might be considered off topic, but it is important. Apple needs to hear from us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Susie Stanzel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: IDevices [mailto:idevices-bounces at gatewayfortheblind.com] On Behalf Of David G. Carlson
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:24 AM
>>>>>> To: Denny at GatewayForTheBlind.Com; IDevices at GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [IDevices] Your Help Is Needed, Apple Feedback
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Done. Agree completely that using the on screen keypad is often not fast enough to satisfy the prompt processor. It's very
>> frustrating.
>>>>>> David G. Carlson
>>>>>> Marketing / Sales Engineer
>>>>>> RF Timing and Synchronization
>>>>>> dgcarlson at sbcglobal.net<mailto:dgcarlson at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Denny Huff<mailto:denny at gatewayfortheblind.com>
>>>>>> To: IDevices at GatewayForTheBlind.Com<mailto:IDevices at GatewayForTheBlind.Com>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 6:24 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [IDevices] Your Help Is Needed, Apple Feedback
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you use Voiceover and have ever tried to use the numbers on your bluetooth keyboard while on a phone call,
>> you have found that it doesn't work. This is a problem that Apple has not
>>>> addressed and although the engineers have been made aware of the problem, it still hasn't been resolved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is very difficult to enter a string of numbers on the IPhone in the amount of time allotted for many of the
>> services we may call. IE: banking service, ordering products with a credit card, etc. For
>>>> those that use a bluetooth keyboard this process would be much simpler if only we could use the numbers on the keyboard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In order for this problem to be addressed and resolved in a timely manner, Apple needs to hear from us. The
>> more people that send them feedback on this problem the more likely the engineers will
>>>> take it seriously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is what you can do. Follow one of the links below and let them know that you would like to see this
>> problem be corrected. Let them know that you should be able to use Voiceover and the
>>>> numbers on a bluetooth keyboard while on a phone call. Be courteous when making your complaint but also let them know how
much
>> this affects you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are the links you can go to to submit your feedback to Apple;
>>>>>> For the IPhone:
>>>>>> http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html
>>>>>> For the IPad:
>>>>>> http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipad.html
>>>>>> All other devices and IOS apps:
>>>>>> http://www.apple.com/feedback/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> ___________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Denny Huff
>>>>>> Gateway For the Blind LLC.
>>>>>> PO Box 515
>>>>>> St. Clair, MO 63077
>>>>>> Phone: (636) 262-1383
>>>>>> FAX: (314) 558-0298
>>>>>> WWW.GatewayForTheBlind.Com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have questions about that IPhone, IPad or IPod Touch?
>>>>>> Join the IDevices list serve and get answers to your questions and find out tips and tricks about using those devices.
>>>>>> To join send an email message to:
>>>>>> IDevices-Join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com<mailto:IDevices-Join at GatewayForTheBlind.Com>
>>>>>>
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