[nfbcs] FW: your advice would be appreciatedFW: [List] Handling

Wed Jun 26 16:04:00 UTC 2013

Hi Gary,

A lot of this has already been said, so I'll try and be brief.

The student should absolutely take the class; in my mind it isn't even
really much of a debate.  There may have to be some negotiation with
the university, which I'd be happy to help with if necessary.

The purpose of a design class is to learn what's important when
designing applications; web applications in this case.

Even if the student needed to engage a reader to do every bit of the
work in the course, the student could still be expected to learn the
principals, decision points, architecture, etc. of a well   The
student probably will not come out of the course being literate in the
particular tool being used, but isn't (well, shouldn't be) the point
of the course.

Since this course is a required course, the university must consider
web design to be a pretty fundamental skill, which means it isn't
about learning how to run the particular piece of software.

Therefore, the ODR and the computer science department should
absolutely be able to work out a way to teach this course to a blind
student.

Statements to the effect that this will be hard, or a waste of time,
are absolutely not appropriate.

I hope this is helpful, along with being a bit preachy <grin>

Jim

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 07:43:06AM -0500, Gary Wunder wrote:
> Folks, can you help me in helping a student who wants to know if it is
> realistic for him to take a class in computer design?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Gary
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mary ellen [mailto:gabias at telus.net]
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 2:25 PM
> To: Wunder, Gary
> Subject: your advice would be appreciatedFW: [List] Handling
> 
> Hi Gary,
> 
> I just received the following correspondence from and about a student who is
> part of CFB.  I don't know enough about the specific issues to answer him.
> This strikes me as one more example of us playing catch up with software
> that isn't accessible in any meaningful way.  Is he right to drop the
> course, or is the teacher being a grump?  Are there alternative ways to
> demonstrate proficiency with the concepts but using different software as
> Eric suggests?  The teacher says "My main concern is that this is a design
> course, and as such it is a highly visual course. Some of the concerns I
> have are documented in my earlier e-mail - in addition to that, there is a
> module on creating Flash Video in the course and I am pretty sure that this
> will be problematic, and I am not sure how Karl-Erik will be able to perform
> tasks such as using an eyedropper tool to sample colours from an image when
> developing a colour scheme for a website.."  Is that correct, or is it an
> example of a sighted person believing lots of things are too visual for us
> to grasp.  Would working with a reader help?  So many blind people don't
> even consider that option these days.
> 
> Sorry to hit you with these questions so close to convention.  I'd say leave
> it until afterw Orlando, but then you have the Convention Roundup to write.
> 
> 
> I thought you did a masterful job with the sad Oklahoma story.  Mike's a
> very bright guy who cares a lot!  It's a shame that he self-destructed.  The
> entire June issue was good, as is true with the Monitor generally.
> 
> Mary Ellen
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: karl-erik at Sonvisen.com [mailto:karl-erik at Sonvisen.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:16 AM
> To: list at cfb.ca
> Subject: [List] Handling
> 
> 
> As of May,  I'm enrolled this fall for a full course load, and while sorting
> out textbooks, a teacher whom I've had before, emails the school's
> disability resource center concerning their course's accessibility. To
> summarize, this was one of the last lines in the email:
> 
> Quote
> : "I don't want to be faced with the highly time-consuming task of
> recreating course materials and exams for a single use."
> Unquote
> 
> This is perhaps the most insulting thing I've ever heard, to me as a
> disabled person, to all students, and to the school itself.
> 
> The crux of the matter is that the course is a web design and maintenance
> course using specific and very expensive software to achieve results that
> I've known how to do since middle school using notepad. However, because of
> the specific programs used, I'm not able to challenge the course without the
> unfair disadvantage of not knowing those programs, even though I know how to
> achieve the desired results perhaps/probably better than the other students.
> 
> I understand this is a highly visual course, however, I'm not the one who
> decided to make it mandatory for their bachelor program, and I'm not the one
> who put it together using ninaccessible software. regardless, I will likely
> end up seeking an alternative course simply to avoid this teacher.
> 
> Anyways, I'd like to know if anyone has any other suggestions on handling
> this? I've attached the teacher's previous emails for your perusal.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Karl-Erik
> 
> Most recent email:
> 
> No I have no objection to you copying my e-mail and sending it to Karl-Erik.
> 
> He took another course from me earlier (BUS 141), but this was a much less
> visual course and this still seemed to present some problems for him.
> Also, we had to rewrite all of our exams in BUS 140 as the screen reader was
> unable to work with the Flash based simulations in MyITLab, which was very
> time consuming for us as they were only used the one-time.
> 
> My main concern is that this is a design course, and as such it is a highly
> visual course. Some of the concerns I have are documented in my earlier
> e-mail - in addition to that, there is a module on creating Flash Video in
> the course and I am pretty sure that this will be problematic, and I am not
> sure how Karl-Erik will be able to perform tasks such as using an eyedropper
> tool to sample colours from an image when developing a colour scheme for a
> website..
> 
> In addition to my concerns about the highly visual nature of a design
> course, there is also the issue of the Adobe Creative Suite software. We
> have a limited set of licenses which are all in use in our dedicated lab as
> the licenses are very expensive. The issue will be with exams for which we
> cannot supply a license for DRC, or for Karl-Eric's personal use. We use
> Adobe CS6 - I am not sure if this is available anymore as Adobe has replaced
> it with a cloud based version (CS7) for which you have to pay a monthly fee.
> We are staying with CS6 as we already have the licenses for it, but I am
> unsure as to Adobe's policy about selling CS 6 - I know that you cannot buy
> earlier versions of software from Microsoft for example. We also use a very
> old version of ExamView for course quizzes and for part of the final exam
> and I don't know if the screen reader software is capable of reading the
> question and answer choices from this tool.
> 
> While I fully support the work that DRC does to help students, and fully
> support DRC students in my courses, I am very anxious about having a blind
> student in a design course that relies so heavily on the visual aspects of
> design, and I don't want to be faced with the highly time-consuming task of
> recreating course materials and exams for a single use.
> 
> It is for these reasons that I am wondering if another course would be a
> more suitable choice for someone with Karl-Eric's specific disability.
> End most recent email.
> 
> Start first email, (sent to a DRC Counsellor):
> 
> I wanted to check in with you before I answer Karl regarding the textbook
> and software as I am wondering if a website design course is an appropriate
> course for a blind student to take. The issue is that much of this course is
> visual - we use graphic design software (Photoshop) to process photographs
> (cropping, colour contrast, contrast and brightness, levels, and sharpening
> for example), and we use Fireworks to develop website banners, buttons, and
> filler graphics. These are all highly visual tasks. In addition, we use CSS
> for page layout (Dreamweaver), and students must be able to see if they have
> "column-drops" and other broken layout issues. I am not sure that screen
> reader software is capable of supporting these tasks in the web design
> environment.
> 
> End first email.
> 
> 
> 
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