[nfbcs] Using Apple Photo Stream on Windows with JAWS or NVDA

Kevin Fjelsted kfjelsted at gmail.com
Sun Jan 5 04:52:59 UTC 2014 

It depends on the slice and dice.

First of all, this discussion started with questions about multi-platform support. In this case for ChromeVox the platform support is broad, i.e., Mac, Windows, Linux, ChromeOS and perhaps android.
In this case by employing a common extension for accessibility, the majority of the developer's work is only required to be done once.

It is not to state that Google Chrome cannot be used by the native or third party screen readers, rather that ChromeVox provides more consistency across the platforms, a deeper integration than is possible by using the external screen readers... 
The chicken has flown the coup, which means that it is not possible to encompass all the accessibility problems in a screen reader.
Unless we forge a deeper binding with the applications accessibility will continue to be mediocre and fall further and further behind.
At some level framework screen readers, i.d., deep accessibility layers imbedded in a common development framework can work witnessed by IOS, OS X... Windows never started with a deep accessibility framework and we now see the fruits of that disaster in very mediocre and stagnant support for accessibility when viewed across the application base! 
Regarding learning multiple systems, even in ChromeVox there are multiple keymappings available thus if there was more focus on the operational interface and defining commonalities so that multiple products use the same interface approach there would not be a training issue once it is learned.
I would caution about stagnating the interface however. Recall that it was not that long ago that BLind people were told by established accessibility companies and independent experts that touch screens were out of reach. Thank heavens, for those who ignored the commonly held views and imagined that a touch interface would be just another problem to solve. For those who would advocate that everything look exactly like the JAWS interface, I would caution that this approach  will only enhance the stagnation and the experience of falling behind.
If we continue to push the accessibility responsibility to a third party screen reader creator we will never achieve anything beyond mediocre  stagnation.

 
-Kevin


On Jan 4, 2014, at 9:01 PM, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:

> Kevin,
> 
> I think, though, that you are looking at a very specific solution for a specific problem.  How do you see the Google approach being applied generally?  
> There has to be a middleground between requiring software developers to conform to what screen readers have implemented and software developers 
> going completely their own way.  I think Chromevox can play an important role as a proof of concept of how modern web pages can be handled, but I am 
> not convinced that it is a blueprint to solve our accessibility problems.  At the very least, and I think this would be inadequate, there would need to be 
> some kind of protocol to have multiple solutions coexist within an operating system.  If one is going to do one thing with their computer such as browsing, 
> this won't matter.  If one is in an environment where they do numerous activities at once, though, which is the common situation, separate accessibility 
> solutions running simultaneously are problematic at best, and that doesn't even address the added training to learn separate screen reader interfaces on 
> top of separate software.  I am curious how you would see this working if it were scaled up.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Steve Jacobson
> 
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 15:10:11 -0600, Kevin Fjelsted wrote:
> 
>> ChromeVox has built-in navigation controls and accessibility i.e., speech and Braille output, that permit one to access the app without the need for a 
> separate screen reader.
>> So neither Window Eyes, Voiceover,  or JAWS is required.
>> This is not a web site context it is an accessibility context for the app itself i.e., Google Chrome.
> 
>> -Kevin
> 
>> On Jan 4, 2014, at 2:55 PM, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> 
>>> If one were to employ your reasoning throughout the software industry, then
>>> window-eyes users would have no reason to complain if software and web site
>>> developers developed their sites for JAWS. I'm afraid that won't fly in the
>>> blind user community.
>>> 
>>> Mike Freeman
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Fjelsted
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 8:55 AM
>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Using Apple Photo Stream on Windows with JAWS or NVDA
>>> 
>>> I can use Chromevox across multiple platforms i.e., it is accessible.
>>> However it is accessible through the implementation of it's own
>>> accessibility platform which actually improves consistency and
>>> supportability.  It is totally acceptable. to facilitate a common
>>> accessibility interface in this manner. In other words, I don't think that
>>> there should be a mandate that products be accessible via JAWS for the
>>> instance of  the windows platform, If they are indeed accessible through
>>> another method such as ChromeVox supports.
>>> 
>>> -Kevin
>>> 
>>> On Jan 4, 2014, at 12:10 AM, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I don't quite understand what you mean about Chromevox. 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Fjelsted
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 3:51 PM
>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [ ] Using Apple Photo Stream on Windows with JAWS or NVDA  
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting question about accessibility on a second platform.
>>>> Microsoft word is not at accessible on the Mac in fact none of the office
>>>> products are.
>>>> In the case of Microsoft office for windows, would there be any
>>>> accessibility without a third party screen reader since Microsoft seems to
>>>> get by being off the hook for supporting screen reading functions beyond
>>> the
>>>> Navigator bare bones?
>>>> 
>>>> iTunes is only accessible on windows because of outside pressures
>>>> litigiously or otherwise.
>>>> 
>>>> Chromevox is accessible on multiple platforms only because it made it's
>>> own
>>>> sub platform. :) We should be demanding that an app be accessible on any
>>>> platform it is built for.
>>>> 
>>>> -Kevin
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 3, 2014, at 5:34 PM, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Has anyone had any luck with managing the Apple photo stream on 
>>>>> Windows using JAWS or NVDA? It shows up in two places, which are the 
>>>>> actual location and some sort of shortcut under My Computer. The one 
>>>>> under My Computer is completely inaccessible. The actual location 
>>>>> works like a regular folder; however, moving the files around there 
>>>>> has no effect on the files that get synced to my iPhone, so I am 
>>>>> guessing that there is something magical about the not accessible one. 
>>>>> Any suggestions? Also, to that end, out of curiosity, if a company 
>>>>> makes a product that runs on an operating system besides their own, 
>>>>> should they have to make it work with the accessibility features of that
>>>> operating system?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Nicole
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>>>>> om
>>>> 
>>>> 
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> 
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