[nfbcs] NVDA product question

Mon Nov 3 20:59:40 UTC 2014

Mike,

If you are able to use NVDA and get what you need, that is great.  NVDA is a good program and it works pretty well 
on newer software.  Many of us are not in a position to choose the software we work with, though, being required 
to use that which has been chosen by our employers.  My employer uses Lotus Notes, for example.  Both Window-Eyes 
and JAWS have read those messages fairly seamlessly for years while NVDA does not.  I have seen references to some 
work on that within NVDA, but Window-eyes and JFW have been reading these messages well before NVDA was developed.  
My 3270 terminal emulator does not work with NVDA but works with both JFW and Window-Eyes.  I could probably find 
one that works with NVDA, but I'm able to use the same one my co-workers use with Window-Eyes and with JAWS.

My point is that there are still differences between NVDA and the other screen readers.  In some cases, the 
differences may not matter, but one has to be aware that differences still exist.  Those who develop NVDA work 
very hard to make NVDA a good screen reader, and as older software is harvested by employers, some of what I have 
mentioned here may be less of an issue.  I think that NVDA sets the bar pretty high in some areas and the other 
screen readers have to take it seriously.  If one buys a screen reader, one should be able to expect that it will 
do everything as well as does NVDA, but that isn't always the case.  Yet, there are still cases where NVDA won't 
work as well as other screen readers.  One has to weigh the differences.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 12:25:19 -0800, Michael Forzano via nfbcs wrote:

>Hi Mike,

>Seems I'm in the minority here, and am rather surprised, but I've been
>using NVDA as my primary screen reader for several years. On a daily
>basis the main apps I use are Firefox, Outlook, Putty for SSH, and
>Notepad++ for development. I feel it is just as efficient as JAWS. I'm
>employed as a software developer so efficiency is pretty important to
>me. It does have a bit of a learning curve, particularly the use of
>object navigation as opposed to a JAWS cursor like equivalent, but
>once you learn to use it efficiently I find it works extremely well.
>JAWS still has better office support, though NVDA has improved quite a
>lot in that area in recent updates. JAWS also still likely has better
>support for some specialized applications (such as ones that need
>scripts). On the other hand, it works out of the box with Skype, an
>application that still needs JAWS scripts as far as I know.

>Obviously everyone has different needs, but I wouldn't be so quick to
>shy away from NVDA just because it's free and free might not be all it
>is cracked up to be.

>Mike

>On 11/3/14, Mike Jolls via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I won't argue the fact that often times, you do get what you pay for.  Case
>> in point, I just recently purchased a guitar.  It was not an inexpensive
>> instrument ... and I have played less expensive guitars ... and the
>> workmanship on this guitar amazes me.  It's not even the most expensive one
>> ... not a cheap one either ... but still the point is made that you get what
>> you pay for.  In the case of the guitar, I'd spend the money again.  The
>> guitar is just simply that good.
>>
>> With that said, here was the reason for my inquiry about NVDA.  Jaws,
>> although it is a good product, is (for the version I have) about $1000 if I
>> was to go buy a copy with no previous version.  That's a pretty stiff price
>> tag and I'm sure there are people who could benefit from a screen reader who
>> may not qualify for it through a state agency who can't afford it.  While I
>> am a developer and I understand that it takes hundreds of hours to code and
>> test a product such as this, charging that much money simply prices some
>> people who could benefit from it right out of the park.  I definitely do
>> understand that when you put as much time as they do at Freedom (or other
>> vendors) into the product, you have to get your money back to stay in
>> business ... but at what price?  Here in Nebraska where I live  ... for
>> example ... they charge 10% in taxes when you buy a car.  On a $30,000 car,
>> you have to come up with an additional $3000 within 30 days when you
>> purchase (don't worry, I'm not driving).  It seems to me that they'd sell
>> more new cars if they'd lower the tax burden.  When prices are high, not as
>> many can buy.  When prices are lower, it opens up the product to more
>> people.  Simple economics there.
>>
>> I do know people ... in  my wife's family ... that could have benefitted
>> from purchasing these products ... but they absolutely couldn't do it
>> because of the price.  OK, free is totally on the other end of the spectrum,
>> and I can understand paying something ... or as I said above, you get what
>> you pay for.     So I'm sure there could be some sort of happy medium.
>>
>> Now I do understand that our market is a bit different since our population
>> is much smaller and the vendors have to spread their cost over a smaller
>> group.  That could keep the price high.  But what if the accessibility
>> vendors contracted with Microsoft or Google or others and had Jaws or
>> ZoomText or Magic or whatever built into the O/S?  Then the cost could be
>> distributed over the "whole world" ... and those that didn't need to use the
>> product wouldn't have to turn it on.  The vendors would get paid a bit
>> differently but perhaps that would help distribute the software to the
>> masses and it wouldn't cost as much to the end user.  And, when a student
>> got to a university, for example, the product would already be there (as a
>> side benefit).
>>
>> I'm digressing on that last point, but I'm just saying ... while I get the
>> whole thing of value for money, and I do understand that quality does come
>> at a price, couldn't there be some other way to do it that doesn't shut
>> people out who could really use the technology?
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: gwunder at earthlink.net
>>> To: mrspock56 at hotmail.com; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: RE: [nfbcs] NVDA product question
>>> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:14:05 -0500
>>>
>>> Hello, Mike. I am delighted that you read the article about NVDA in the
>>> Braille Monitor, and I want to give you a heads up about something that
>>> will
>>> appear in the November issue.
>>>
>>> We have run two articles talking about free or essentially free software
>>> for
>>> blind people, but I wanted the Braille Monitor also to make the case for
>>> why
>>> we have for-profit commercial screen readers and what role they play in
>>> our
>>> education and employment. I think I found that article, and I hope that
>>> it
>>> provokes discussion. The essence of the article is that free might not be
>>> everything it is cracked up to be if we are interested in efficiency, and
>>> I
>>> think anyone who is employed knows that efficiency is a key issue.
>>>
>>> Thank you for being a reader of the Braille Monitor. Please feel free to
>>> write me with ways in which I can make the publication more responsive to
>>> the things that you want and need. My email address for Monitor-related
>>> issues is gwunder at nfb.org
>>>
>>> Warmly,
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Jolls via
>>> nfbcs
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2014 2:00 PM
>>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nfbcs] NVDA product question
>>>
>>> So I was reading the NFB Monitor this morning and came across an article
>>> about NVDA.  I didn't know much about it up to this point, but as I read
>>> the
>>> article by the person who created the free screen reader, it really
>>> intrigued me.  Up until this point I've sworn by JAWS ... but it is
>>> pricey
>>> and in a few years I'll be wanting to retire ... and NOT have to pay the
>>> price for upgrades all the time.  Having a free screen reader would be a
>>> good thing.... providing it's a good product.  It sounds like it, but I
>>> wanted to get some opinions.  I know some of you out there have spoken
>>> about
>>> it so I'm hoping we have some users on this list.  Can anybody comment on
>>> the product?  How does it stack up next to Jaws and does it support
>>> Freedom
>>> Scientific's Braille displays?  In addition, I might be interested in
>>> contacting the developer and get on board in helping out people once I
>>> don't
>>> have the responsibilities of working for a living.
>>>
>>> Comments welcome.
>>>
>>>
>>>  		 	   		
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>  		 	   		
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