[nfbcs] The Mac Beckens

Christopher Chaltain chaltain at gmail.com
Sun Jan 17 23:14:55 UTC 2016 

True, but with PC's you get more options when it comes to price and with 
NVDA, JAWS home license, Window-Eyes and Linux, you can get a cheaper 
system, including screen reader, then you can with Apple.

On 17/01/16 14:27, John G. Heim via nfbcs wrote:
> I think one of the mainreasons people like voiceover so much is that it
> is included on every Apple device for no additional cost. That is
> non-trivial.
>
>
>
>
> On 01/17/2016 01:55 PM, Nicole Torcolini via nfbcs wrote:
>>                  Here is my opinion. I will use a Mac when hell
>> freezes over.
>> What the devil is so much better about VoiceOver?
>>
>>                  Stop making empty claims without supporting them. Stop
>> cherry picking the information that you want and ignoring the rest. As
>> this
>> article
>> <http://qz.com/588126/theres-a-good-reason-americans-are-horrible-at-science
>>
>> />  says, stops using facts "much like a drunk uses a
>>
>> lamppost: for support, not illumination."
>>
>>                  VoiceOver has just as many, if not more, problems as
>> other
>> screen readers. I know because many of my coworkers use Macs, and
>> Apple is
>> introducing more bugs than they are fixing when it comes to internet use.
>> And they have no pressure to fix the bugs because, on the Mac, there
>> is no
>> competition.
>>
>>                  Microsoft has a screen reader; it is called Narrator.
>> I have
>> heard that it is better on newer versions of Windows, which I have not
>> tried, but, from my experience, it does not work worth a damn. I know
>> that
>> Microsoft has some kind of deal with Windows Eyes, but it does not
>> work well
>> with complex websites. Also, if Microsoft will not even consider
>> accessibility when making their products, and do stuff like put the
>> ribbon
>> everywhere, why would they be interested in maintaining a screen reader?
>>
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
>> Donahue via
>> nfbcs
>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 11:25 PM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>> Cc: Peter Donahue
>> Subject: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>>
>>
>>
>> Good morning everyone,
>>
>>
>>                  If Microsoft would do with its Windows screen reader
>> what
>> Apple has done with the MAC and its iDevices perhaps we would have fewer
>> issues with compatibility and accessibility tools could be kept
>> up-to-date
>> more easily and with little to no cost. Perhaps some MAC and iOS users
>> could
>> weigh in on this issue with the petition and share their experiences with
>> accessing it under iOS and oSX. Perhaps in another few years we'll be
>> 100%
>> Mac and iOS users in this house-hold.
>>
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: nfbcs [ <mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org>
>> mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain via
>> nfbcs
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:35 PM
>>
>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>
>> Cc: Christopher Chaltain
>>
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] NVDA and JAWS [was "Re: Petition Asking President
>> Obama
>> To Direct the JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations"]
>>
>>
>> The idea that anything that's three years old is antiquated is incorrect.
>>
>> I'm sure quite a few people on this list are using Office2013 or
>> Office 2010
>> if not something older. Microsoft and many companies support products for
>> more than three years. People used Windows XP for ten years and beyond.
>>
>>
>> I never saw anything on this list that the problem accessing this
>> petition
>> has to do with the version of JAWS being used. I get the impression that
>> people using more recent versions of JAWS are experiencing the same
>> problem.
>>
>> In other words, I didn't see anything in this thread that JAWS 13
>> can't do
>> the job and can't be used affectively for all sorts of tasks. It seems
>> to me
>> that people are just jumping to conclusions and using this message to
>> make a
>> point rather than help a JAWS user solve their problem and submit this
>> petition.
>>
>>
>> Obviously, I can't tell people what words they can and cannot use, but I
>> think information can be provided in a more sympathetic tone. I'm sure
>> most
>> people running JAWS 13 would like to upgrade, and they don't need to have
>> their faces rubbed in the fact that they can't afford an update.
>>
>> No one may have intended to make anyone feel bad but communication is
>> a two
>> way street, and people need to take into account not just how their words
>> are intended but how they may be received.
>>
>>
>> On 16/01/16 22:08, Buddy Brannan via nfbcs wrote:
>>
>>> The unfortunate reality is that you simply *can't* do everything with
>>> one
>> screen reader. There's certainly no reason not to have more than one
>> if you
>> can afford one, because NVDA is free software. Both definitions of free.
>>
>> Window-Eyes is even no cost if you have Office 2010 or newer.
>>
>>> The other unfortunate reality is that Jaws 13.0 *is* antiquated, and
>>> that
>> isn't meant to make anyone feel bad, it's just a fact. You really
>> can't use
>> a three year old version of anything and expect it to behave correctly
>> with
>> something that's newer. It just isn't realistic.
>>
>>> --
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>>> Email:  <mailto:buddy at brannan.name> buddy at brannan.name
>>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:55 PM, Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs
>> < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>>> I agree that it's good to have NVDA in your tool box regardless of
>>>> what
>> version of JAWS you're running, but it isn't always possible for
>> people to
>> keep up with a product like JAWS, and using two different screen
>> readers can
>> be frustrating. I think it's OK to suggest JAWS, but there's no need
>> to make
>> anyone feel bad by calling the tools they can afford to use "antiquated".
>>
>>>> On 16/01/16 15:18, Jude DaShiell via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>> This is why when jaws users know they're not going to be able to
>>>>> update jaws it's a good idea to have installed nvda to do the jobs
>>>>> their antiquated version of jaws can no longer do.
>>>>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2016, Mike Freeman via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 16:03:52
>>>>>> From: Mike Freeman via nfbcs < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>
>>>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>
>>>>>> Cc: Mike Freeman < <mailto:k7uij at panix.com> k7uij at panix.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>>>>>>      JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>>>>> excess ability does not imply backward compatibility. Your version
>>>>>> of jaws is several versions out of date. I suspect it may be part
>>>>>> of the problem.
>>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 12:52, Jennifer Aberdeen via nfbcs
>>>>>>> < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Why is this patition not accessible? When I click on the submit
>>>>>>> button, in different ways; enter, space, left mouse button on the
>>>>>>> num pad, nothing happens.
>>>>>>> I'm using jaws 13 with win 7 and IE 11.
>>>>>>> Jen
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Chong via nfbcs
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 1:38 PM
>>>>>>> To:  <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Cc: Curtis Chong
>>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>>>>>>> JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>>>>>> Greetings:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016, the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>> launched a petition (the link to which is provided below) calling
>>>>>>> on the Obama administration promptly to release the long-awaited
>>>>>>> ADA internet regulations. On the 20th anniversary of the Americans
>>>>>>> with Disabilities Act (way back in 2010), President Obama said
>>>>>>> that he would issue regulations implementing the requirement for
>>>>>>> accessible websites, noting that they would be "the most important
>>>>>>> updates to the ADA since its original enactment."
>>>>>>> President Obama now says that the regulations will not be released
>>>>>>> until 2018, after he leaves office.
>>>>>>> For those of who are blind, inaccessible websites can make it
>>>>>>> impossible to apply for jobs, participate in online courses, or
>>>>>>> conduct vital personal financial business. Website developers need
>>>>>>> guidance on how to comply with the law. Failing to provide that
>>>>>>> guidance is irresponsible and inconsistent with President Obama's
>>>>>>> expressed commitment to civil rights.
>>>>>>> If you are interested in signing the petition (and I hope you
>>>>>>> are), point your browser to this link.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-jus>
>> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-jus
>>
>>>>>>> tice-promp
>>>>>>> tly-release-ada-internet-regulations
>>>>>>> As an example of the need for these regulations, some JAWS users
>>>>>>> running Internet Explorer have reported a problem with the "sign"
>>>>>>> button when attempting to add their name. Here are some solutions
>>>>>>> to help mitigate that problem.
>>>>>>> 1.            Try routing the JAWS cursor to PC (Insert+Numpad
>>>>>>> Minus), and
>>>>>>> pressing  the left mouse button (Numpad Slash), and the "sign"
>>>>>>> button will be selected.
>>>>>>> 2.            Alternatively, you can sign the petition using the
>> Mozilla
>>
>>>>>>> Firefox browser.
>>>>>>> The petition is reported to be accessible using iOS devices such
>>>>>>> as the iPad or iPhone.
>>>>>>> Cordially,
>>>>>>> Curtis Chong, President
>>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
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>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
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>>>>>>> om
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>>>>>> .com
>>>> --
>>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> me
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>>> m
>>
>> --
>>
>> Christopher (CJ)
>>
>> chaltain at Gmail
>>
>>
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-- 
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail

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