[nfbcs] Jobs for Older Persons Interested in CS

Wed Jul 20 18:43:08 UTC 2016

Changing the subject to be more relevant. Good points though.

On 7/20/16, Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I would like info and thoughts of how older people can get into cs/help
>> desk jobs
>
> I think the important thing here is to collect our wisdom on what tools used
> in these help desk jobs are and are not accessible. When I thought I was
> loosing my job a few years ago, I applied for work in all the fields where I
> had experience, including help desk.  I had to figure out largely on my own,
> when I got several second interviews whether the tools the company was using
> were going to even work for me. In some cases, stuff was surprisingly
> accessible, or work-arounds were readily available. In other cases, nobody
> knew anything about a particular tool.
>
> In tech writing, you need to use desktop publishing software and document
> tracking systems. In programming it's integrated development environments,
> version control and bug-tracking databases. And in tech support, it's
> customer issue databases, remote-control software and VOIP software.
>
> One important thing to remember is that when we were younger, technical
> support happened mostly over the phone with you telling the clueless
> customer to "type in the word type", for example. Nowadays, remote-access
> software is used extensively, and it often isn't at all accessible. But the
> good news is that nowadays help desk  jobs are outsourced to workers at
> barely above minimum wage, and those of us with experience can often get
> work overseeing the outsourced folks, a job which is largely quite doable
> without sight.
>
> When I started at Caere I aquickly moved up to lead support specialist for
> OmniPage, and later got promoted to oversee the actual folks who did the
> support. I monitored calls and traveled to their call centers to train them.
> It was way more fun, and in later cases, way more accessible than doing the
> actual job of speaking with customers over the phone.
>
> Even if you want to be a programmer as a young person, starting out at the
> help desk is a great way to showcase your skills to the company. I got
> promoted to tech writer at several companies because I actually liked
> creating and maintaining the customer knowledgebase. Returning to the older
> person who just needs a job, selling yourself as the person who knows enough
> tech to oversee the outsourced sweat shop can be the way to go.
>
> And searching for tech support jobs is also quite accessible thanks
> toCraigslist. But remember for the job-seeker, regardless of age or
> disability, networking is key. You don't just tell your friends you are
> seeking work: you tell them to ask *THEIR* friends if they know of any jobs
> for which you qualify.
>
> Lastly, I think many blind people gravitate to government jobs or large
> companies, like HP or IBM because they believe there will be more protection
> there, more consideration to accessibility. That's certainly why as a person
> with nearly five decades of work behind me, I work at a college where I am
> protected by 504, 508 and a host of other laws.
>
> But, I got my greatest experiences working at small and midd level
> companies, places where there were as few as 20 or maybe 200 employees. I
> got to wear many hats: people knew my abilities. I wrote scripts, talked to
> beta-testers, wrote manuals, trained junior staff, trained customers, helped
> customers, played release engineer, did a stint in sales, cleaned up bad
> error messages, tested products, fixed bugs in others' code, designed a
> knowledgebase, went to meetings, formatted floppies, made coffee ... you
> name it. And the reality is , I got downsized a lot. For a while I thought I
> was stuck on that hamster wheel of first hired and first fired, but was
> always assured that I would be laid off with a group, and that my skills
> were not in question. The thing was, I got so much experience doing all
> that. I am sure though one reason that contributed to my jobs lasting only
> four years or so was that I couldn't always access all the tools, and in a
> small company they needed people to be flexible. Looking back though, having
> to search for work so often made me less afraid of it and just overall
> better at finding work. And now I have a resume I have to cut stuff out
> from.
>
> --Debee
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz via
> nfbcs
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:55 AM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
> Cc: Bryan Schulz
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>
> Hi,
>
> I would like info and thoughts of how older people can get into cs/help desk
> jobs and am so sick of the nfb only being interested in young students.
> The situation of someone going down the technical college road and only
> ending up with an associates degree isn't fun and gaining certs hasn't
> helped at all.
> Bryan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Webster
> via nfbcs
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 12:20 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
> Cc: Kathryn Webster; 'Jim Barbour'
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>
> Debee and all,
>
> 	I would be exceedingly interested in contributing to this. I'd like to echo
> Jim's suggestion of a wiki as that would be easy to maintain, edit, and
> expand.
> In terms of publicity, I'm eager to take the lead on marketing any new
> intiatives to help blind students through our master database and website.
> Collaboration amongst divisions is a significant goal of mine, and I see the
> CS Division as an ideal place to continue that effort. Our student division
> leaders, particularly Bryan Duarte and myself, are both very in touch with
> CS and student issues, so there is some place for us to start.
> If our CS Division leadership chooses to move forward with this idea, count
> me in on all accounts. I am more than happy to help with whatever is
> necessary in kickstarting this effort.
>
> What a fabulous idea!
>
> Best,
> Kathryn
>
> Kathryn Webster
> President | National Association of Blind Students
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Barbour via
> nfbcs
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 1:07 PM
> To: Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs
> Cc: Jim Barbour
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>
> I think Debee has a great idea.  I actually think it's a very good
> application for a wiki.
>
> One person won't know everything about what is accessible and what isn't,
> even in the developer and IT focused worlds.
>
> If we agree, I'd be happy to work with Curtis W on setting up a wiki and
> start populating it.  I'd like to hear from folks that we think this is
> worth collaborating on.
>
> Jim
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 04:54:45PM +0000, Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs
> wrote:
>> >I'm interested in hearing from folks on this list about things they'd
> like to see the NFB in Computer Science do in the future
>> I'm changing the subject line so people won't skip over it.
>>
>> I think one of the most crucial things is to put together an online
>> paper,
> that is updated regularly, that spells out what one needs to know to get
> started in any computer science related field. This would be different from
> what sighted people need to know; it would focus on which current tools are
> accessible, which aren't, and include the resources such as books or online
> training that were discussed over in the other thread.
>>
>> I work at a college, and I know new blind students get stymied by the
> simplest things because they lack experience and so do their sighted
> helpers. For example, I heard of a student who dropped a Linux class which
> was all command-line based, because the rest of the class was using telnet
> built in to Windows to log in to the class server. Not sure why they used
> anything this insecure, but I wasn't administering that system and heard
> about it third-hand. And JAWS was not accurately reading what appeared
> onscreen, nor was it tracking the cursor when the student tried to use
> Emacs. As a Linux-head I had to laugh a bit about the ignorance that lead
> the student and his professor to conclude the coursework was inaccessible,
> but it's not a laughing matter, when a beginner doesn't know where to turn.
>
>>
>> The document could have sections: What you need to know to Learn C++"
>> or
> "What you need to know in your first Visual Basic Class" etc.
>>
>> I also think we need to nail down and possibly explain the reasons
>> behind
> the inaccessibility of many current tools. For example, if the QT4 library
> is used in creating interfaces, screen readers only partially identify or
> even recognize the existence of controls. If in learning SQL the difference
> between inner joins and outer joins is explained through the use of diagrams
> only, then it's not going to make sense to any blind student. That caused
> me, an experience programmer to drop a course just last year. I would have
> loved to be able to find a paper that outlined where I could go to locate a
> book that explained these concepts in plain English.
>>
>> Another thought about UML: wild idea here, but how about digital
>> tactile
> diagrams of the symbols that could be embossed? I know different embossers
> have different codes for doing graphics, but someone who knows more about
> this than I could perhaps take the lead here. A student could simply emboss
> the shapes, or get their school to do it, and then using post-it note glue
> which comes in sticks, post their charts on a classroom wall, doing homework
> along with a sighted class.
>>
>> One way in which I can contribute is writing, and I'd be happy to take
>> the
> lead on that part.
>>
>> --Debee
>>
>>
>>
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