[nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against Disabled

Gary Wunder gwunder at earthlink.net
Fri Mar 11 18:20:31 UTC 2016 

I have no wish to argue the point or to make a stand that the employer has no obligation. I simply observe that there are lots of things that argued against our being hired, and anytime we can eliminate one or two of those, that's a good thing. Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 11, 2016, at 9:37 AM, John G Heim via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> But employers pick up the tab for employees equipment all the time. Imagine a sighted person getting hired at a company that made accessibility tools. Everybody else who works at the company is blind. They sit him down in front of a computer with no monitor, just a headset. He says, "I'm going to need a monitor." And the boss says, "Are you kidding? You expect me to go out and spend my own money on some stupid visual device just for you?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 03/11/2016 07:02 AM, Gary Wunder via nfbcs wrote:
>> I have a reasonable understanding of the ADA when it comes to how reasonable
>> accommodation is interpreted, but I would argue for any client who pressed
>> the state agency to provide the initial equipment for a job. It is one thing
>> to demonstrate to an employer that I have worth and then expect him to pick
>> up the same cost that he does for others, but I think it is a very different
>> thing for an employer who doesn't know me or much of anything about blind
>> people to be told that I will need screen reading software, a notetaker, and
>> perhaps a scanner and some additional software. For the agency to drop the
>> ball after carrying it 90% of the way seems foolish to me.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>> via nfbcs
>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 4:21 PM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>> Cc: Steve Jacobson; 'Tracy Carcione'
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against
>> Disabled
>> 
>> John,
>> 
>> I think you raise some interesting points.  When I started working some
>> forty years ago, it was common thought that the agency for the blind
>> provided the equipment for a job.  Often this was a one-time thing, and of
>> course that has changed.  However, particularly with the coming of ADA, but
>> even before that, it became the employer's responsibility to provide needed
>> equipment as a reasonable accommodation.  Whether it should be considered or
>> not, that makes us more expensive to hire for the same return, unless, as
>> you say, we can convince an employer that we will produce more.  However, I
>> am somewhat uneasy with the concept that we produce more to justify our
>> extra equipment because it may not be that easy to achieve.  A lot of our
>> reasonable accommodation needs are really pretty small for a large company,
>> but they can be an "Undo burden" on a small company which is where many jobs
>> are.  Also, many large companies budget at a department level and one's
>> equipment may need to be paid for by the department that does the hiring.  A
>> small expense for a large company might be much more substantial at the
>> department level.  come
>> 
>> I don't claim to have answers, but I believe this problem needs to be
>> considered.  Still, can one really claim discrimination if someone else is
>> hired who does not have reasonable accommodation needs?  I know that some
>> job applicants are told to iron out their reasonable accommodation needs
>> right away, and there is a case to be made for that.  One needs to know if
>> they can do the job for one thing.  But it really exposes one's hand, so to
>> speak, very early in the process.  Another employee who does not require any
>> reasonable accommodations but who had a family situation that causes them to
>> require time off, for example, won't reveal any of this until they have been
>> hired.  We need to look for answers to some of this as blind people because
>> we are the ones most effected.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Steve Jacobson
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim via
>> nfbcs
>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:51 AM
>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: John G Heim <jheim at math.wisc.edu>; Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against
>> Disabled
>> 
>> It'd be funny if it wasn't about putting bread on the table.
>> Another thing in the comments that I think is of interest is that some
>> people blasted the research study saying it was stupid to disclose that you
>> are disabled in the cover letter. But both of our examples show how futile
>> it is to not disclose it.  You're going to end up at a lot of interviews
>> where you have absolutely no chance at the job. There is always some chance
>> you'll wow the interviewer into giving you a chance, I suppose. Is it worth
>> it? Just my opinion but I don't think so. I think you are better off weeding
>> those people out in the first place.
>> 
>> The last time I was applying for jobs, I made myself out to be Super Blind
>> Guy in my cover letter. Of course, I didn't actually use that term in my
>> cover letter but I made a point of emphasizing the things I could do. I have
>> competed in triathlonns, landscaped the front of my house, done a lot of
>> woodworking. For what it's worth, it seemed to work.
>> 
>> You know about Super Blind Guy, right? He and his faithful guide dog
>> companion  go around righting wrongs with his razor sharp mind, super
>> hearing, echo location, and super sensitive touch. "Ah ha!" says Super Blind
>> Guy, "I knew the bill was counterfeit because it was dated 1936 and Andrew
>> Jackson didn't appear on the twenty until 1938."
>>> On 03/10/2016 10:10 AM, Tracy Carcione via nfbcs wrote:
>>> I once interviewed for a job, taking a bus, a train, and walking
>>> several blocks in Manhattan, only to find the interviewer could not be
>>> convinced I wouldn't need someone to lead me to the bathroom.  Grrrr.
>>> Tracy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim
>>> via nfbcs
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 11:03 AM
>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>> Cc: John G Heim
>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against
>>> Disabled
>>> 
>>> 
>> http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/02/upshot/fake-cover-letters-expose-discri
>>> mination-against-disabled.html
>>> 
>>> I think I have talked on this list about wanting to commission a study
>>> similar to the one mentioned in this article except with a blind
>>> applicant applying for IT jobs. The study has people with spinal
>>> injuries and Asperger's Syndrome applying for accounting jobs. They
>>> found disabled applicants were 26% less likely to get a call back. Of
>>> particular interest are some of the comments.
>>> 
>>> "Given two candidates of roughly equal qualifications the rational
>> decision
>>> would be to hire the one without disabilities. It's going to be less
>>> expensive, on average . [...] So statistically, a disabled job
>>> applicant would need to be sufficiently better qualified for the job
>>> to overcome the disability to be the 'correct' choice."
>>> 
>>> Long time readers of this list will know I've speculated about this
>>> effect for years. My guess is that this factor is much greater for
>>> blind
>> applicants
>>> than it is for the types of disabilities in the study. A blind person
>> does,
>>> in fact, have greater challenges to over come. But I suspect that even
>> worse
>>> is the lack of understanding about just how much a blind technologist
>>> can do. A perspective employer once flatly refused to interview me
>>> when she
>> saw
>>> that I was blind. She essentially accused me of faking my resume and
>> simply
>>> would not believe a blind person could use a computer.
>>> 
>>> 
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>> --
>> --
>> John G. Heim; jheim at math.wisc.edu; sip://jheim@sip.linphone.org
>> 
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> 
> -- 
> --
> John G. Heim; jheim at math.wisc.edu; sip://jheim@sip.linphone.org
> 
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