[nfbcs] Technical gaps that need to be filled for math classes.

[Kevin]

You're going to hate this but:

It's a sighted world.  This means the wheels of change will move 
slowly.  I've had my share of problems with the education system but I 
have to believe the problems will be corrected.


On 1/31/2019 1:50 PM, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
> Hi Kevin,  I'd like to believe it, I really would. But I watched the blind
> students who came after me struggle with the exact same issues. They didn't
> benefit from my work. I can conceive of systems of education that give
> blind students a fail shot at math but they don't exist. I need evidence
> for optimism, otherwise it's dishonest.
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:06 AM Kevin via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org wrote:
>
>> That seems a bit negative to me.  Change happens often in ways we don't
>> see.  We can also be a part of that change.
>>
>>
>> On 1/30/2019 8:40 PM, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>> Hi Kendra,
>>>
>>> I was on the Blind Math list for at least 10 years and almost nothing
>>> has changed in that time.
>>> Nothing's gonna change either, not unless those "NASA-brain people"
>>> completely rethink the way blind people read, write and learn math.
>>> Even if that happens, don't expect the disabled office staff at any
>>> college to understand anything about blind people and math.
>>>
>>> A full-page Braille display that can do graphics, etc. doesn't exist
>>> because the cost to produce it is enormous. You'd have a zillion tiny
>>> moveable breakable parts, produced for a tiny minority of Braille
>>> readers within the small minority of blind people. The market is tiny
>>> and the parts aren't cheap. I touched a graphics display at CSUN so
>>> progress is happening sloooooowly.
>>> But I won't get excited until standard tablets for sighted people have
>>> tactile screens. Then the price goes down for everyone.
>>>
>>> Life is hard.
>>>
>>> On 1/30/19, Kendra Schaber via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Technical gaps that need to be filled for math classes.
>>>> Hi all!
>>>> I’m taking college algebra which has an awesome teacher and awesome
>> support
>>>> from my school’s Disability Services. Dispite this awesome support, the
>>>> longer I’m in this class, the farther south I seem to be treading. No,
>> it’s
>>>> not entirely because I can’t solve a quadradic equation to save my life.
>>>> It’s because I keep running into some major ethical and technical gaps
>> that
>>>> really need to be filled. I have an Orien TI84 graphic calculator, a
>> Polaris
>>>> Braille Sense with the Polaris Math app, a Dell laptop computer with
>> both
>>>> JAWS and NVDA installed on it, an iPhone SE with Voice Over and of
>> course,
>>>> this math class requires braille textbooks.
>>>> I’m not here to ask for spasific help in one area here. But I have
>> quickly
>>>> spotted some major gaps that I think all math students are facing that
>> need
>>>> to be dealt with asap.
>>>> Technology:”
>>>> Orien TI84 graphic calculator:
>>>> This graphic calculator is an awesome tool when you have mastered it.
>> The
>>>> ethical problem here is for those of us who are in our 30s and who are
>> also
>>>> not computer programers and who are also not young enough to have a
>> sixth
>>>> sense on how to figure out how to work technology. I’m one of the
>> amiture
>>>> folks who knows how to work technology once I have learned how to use
>> this
>>>> technology. I have noticed that the calculator is not as simular to the
>>>> normal vertions as everyone wants you to believe. Whenever I have gone
>> and
>>>> had a sited person, tutor or teacher show me how to work this
>> calculator, we
>>>> often run into technical hang ups with the accessibility. For example,
>> just
>>>> before this writing, I was sitting in my math classroom after class
>> itself
>>>> had ended with my math teacher. He was walking me through how to
>> discover
>>>> the minamun point on a coordinent plane. We have noticed how much I’m
>> slowed
>>>> down when reading the points to hunt for this minamum. My teacher and I
>>>> couldn’t figure out how to get the calculator to quickly list off this
>>>> information without spending five minutes, (not egzaderating) just to
>> read
>>>> through the points to find the minamum. We have noticed that if I were
>> to
>>>> get ten of this kind of problem in my homework, that if I were to try
>> this
>>>> kind of problem without a pair of sited eyeballs, it would take me
>>>> literarly, all day just to get through just that set of ten math
>> problems.
>>>> This example is just one of a few that I could list off the top of my
>> head
>>>> that are of this nature. While I’m on the same thread, this ethical
>>>> technical issue also connects up to a bigger picture. I have noticed
>> that
>>>> everyone wants to point people like me to the usual resources like the
>>>> school’s tutoring center, etutoring and of course, Professor U Tube and
>>>> Professor Google and the manuals that are better served in the recycling
>>>> bin. Sure, everything but the mannuals do have their place. Don’t get me
>>>> wrong! But for people like me who are not born with NASA technical
>> brains,
>>>> we actually need our own teacher who already knows this calculator and
>> who
>>>> can actually teach better than the tutors that come from most school’s
>>>> tutoring centers. The ethical issue is just as much a technical issue.
>> These
>>>> experts don’t igzist in most places where accessible tech is taught. I
>> had
>>>> to put out a call for help on the math list. Luckily, I managed to get a
>>>> blind calculus student in college who knows this calculator. But I could
>>>> just as easily have not found any one at all who could help me out. I
>> also
>>>> got more of the expected feedback in which I was told to go to the usual
>>>> resources. But what people don’t truely don’t understand is that those
>>>> resources leave just as many gaps as they fill whenever they do help
>> out.
>>>> Also, the U Tube vidios have so much visual information that they leave
>> more
>>>> gaps for a blind audience than they actually give to that same audience.
>>>> Also, when you do run into something that is remotely useful, it costs
>> an
>>>> arm and a leg for those of us on SSI. So, either way, we are doomed for
>>>> aquiring the right resources that are actually going to assist us
>> normal non
>>>> NASA brained folks.
>>>> The Polaris Braille Sense:
>>>> The Polaris Braille Sense is even more of a specialty piece of
>> technology
>>>> than the calculator. This awesome braille note taker is so new that
>> there is
>>>> not enough useful information that is presented in such a way that a
>> blind
>>>> person would benefit from when trying to learn how to use this note
>> taker by
>>>> using U Tube vidios. Just like the calculator, there are not enough
>>>> specialty tech teachers who knows how to work this device. As the
>> result, it
>>>> can and does take months just to learn how to use the Polaris Braille
>> Sense.
>>>> There is a deeper layer with this device that I believe it leaves even
>> more
>>>> gaps than it actually fills. This gap is the Polaris Math app. True,
>> this
>>>> app is useful when you know how to use it, particularly when you need to
>>>> send your teacher several coordinent plain graphs as homework or in a
>> test.
>>>> The problem is that there isn’t enough information that’s out there
>> that a
>>>> blind person would benefit from. Today, I watched a vidio which left
>> out a
>>>> few very small but critical gaps such as where the graph button is for
>>>> example. Vidios like this often helps the sited person more than the
>> blind
>>>> person who is required to use this app every time they go to turn a
>> graph
>>>> into their math professor. Again, there are too many people who promptly
>>>> point out the usual resources which do have their place but they also
>> don’t
>>>> understand that such resources leave more gaps than they fill. We simply
>>>> need more blind tech specialists to teach the non NASA brained college
>>>> student. Even my own tech teacher is a non NASA brained blind tech
>> teacher.
>>>> Because of this, her skills are limited even though she specializes in
>>>> teaching access technology. But she even needs such experts to farther
>>>> expand her education.
>>>> Braille books:
>>>> I love braille dearly!!! However, I can’t stand the way textbook
>> producers
>>>> drag their feet with making braille textbooks when the schools who use
>> them
>>>> pay thousands of dollars just to make them. First of all, way too many
>> hard
>>>> copy braille textbooks are slower than the class that they are suposed
>> to
>>>> work in. My math class requires a textbook that my math teacher
>> spasifically
>>>> picked out for me to use in his class. I got the first part just fine
>> and
>>>> like normal. But from last week on, they got delayed. I waited a few
>> days
>>>> just in case the snail mail was delayed only to discover apon farther
>>>> digging that they got delayed by at least 2 weeks. Even without any
>> other
>>>> technical problem, this issue alone renders a blind person unable to do
>>>> their homework independently. I now have to have a reader to cover this
>> gap.
>>>> I have also noticed some errors in the braille translation itself. Mind
>> you,
>>>> that’s not including the unrealistic expectation for a math student of
>> any
>>>> form to read 14 vollums of an encyclopitia styled textbook in 2 weeks. I
>>>> scated around that by jumping dirrectly to the homework and studdying
>> the
>>>> rest as needed. In any case, those pesky hard copy braille books also
>>>> address some bigger ethical issues that are gaps for decades.
>>>> Braille graphics:
>>>> Braille graphics are crazy and hard to produce. However, they are highly
>>>> needed in the math and science fields. Because of this, graphs has to
>> come
>>>> up here. There has been talk of a piece of technology that’s suposed to
>> make
>>>> 2 demintional graphs. But where is it? Why hasn’t it ever made it on to
>> the
>>>> markets? This needs to be addressed now!!! For people like me, I can’t
>> read
>>>> a braille math book on my braille display and get the information that’s
>>>> needed when it’s presented in the graphs that I would get in a hard copy
>>>> braille text book. A 3D printer can’t address them because the graphs
>> are 2
>>>> dementional, not 3 dementional. I have had a picture in my mind of a
>> whole
>>>> page that’s full of nothing but braille pixles that can pop up anywhere
>> on
>>>> the page to. Either write in regular braille text form, Nemeth Code, UEB
>>>> code or graphs or the combination. This kind of technology does not
>> igzist.
>>>> This kind of technology hasn’t even been invented yet. It’s 2019, not
>> 1999
>>>> and I still have not seen such technology. I thought it would be out by
>> now,
>>>> particularly because of how fast most technology moves. Also, I would
>> want
>>>> this braille page of braille pixles to connect up to a braille note
>> taker as
>>>> needed. I would want to read my homework with this screen but with the
>> note
>>>> taker, I would also want to do my homework because a blind student
>> couldn’t
>>>> read their homework and write it at the same time which is what is
>> needed by
>>>> the student. Because of this, a blind person can’t work their math
>> textbooks
>>>> nor read graphs in less they are done in hard copy form. Hard copy
>> takes up
>>>> way too much space, is too comberson to be realistic and is also not
>> always
>>>> consistantly ethical because it’s not always on the same time, same
>> place,
>>>> same date and same leval playing field.
>>>> With all that on the table, here is what this does to a blind person
>> based
>>>> on my own experiences. This slows the blind student way down, so much
>> so,
>>>> that the student in question can’t keep up with the class at all. They
>> can’t
>>>> independently do their homework without help and regarding the
>> technology,
>>>> without the correct knowledge, the tech is rendered totally useless.
>> There
>>>> are far better ways to improve accessability. Why aren’t these issues
>> even
>>>> talked about, brought up nor even passed around in normal conversation?
>> I
>>>> don’t even know the answer. But I know that there are still way too many
>>>> dangerous gaps that need to be filled in order to get more blind
>> students
>>>> into the STEM fields. What do you all think of the ethics of these gaps?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for taking the time to read this E Mail!
>>>> Blessed be!!!
>>>> Kendra Schaber,
>>>>    Chemeketa Community College,
>>>>    350 Org,
>>>> Citizen’s Climate Lobby,
>>>> National Federation of the Blind of Oregon,
>>>> Capitol Chapter,
>>>> Salem, Oregon.
>>>>    Home email:
>>>> Redwing731 at gmail.com
>>>>    Chemeketa Community College Email:
>>>>    Kschaber at my.Chemeketa.edu
>>>> Phone:
>>>> 971-599-9991
>>>> "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear" Author Unknown.
>>>>    Sent From My iPhone SE.
>>>>    Sent from My Gmail Email.
>>>>    Get Outlook Express for IOS.
>>>>
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