[Nfbf-l] Amtrak

Fri Jun 12 23:14:39 UTC 2009

Kirk,
    With all due respect, I disagree with the comment that "too much is 
being made of this"! I am also very disappointed that Holly's concerns are 
being discounted by our leadership, especially when she has the physical 
evidence of such a practice. We are, first of all, a civil rights 
organization. Why is our leadership unwilling to at least look into the 
possibility that Amtrak violated one of our members civil rights, choosing 
to discount the discrimination?
    I contacted Amtrak and spoke with a Customer Service Representative who 
identified himself as Manne. I was told that it is Amtrak's policy to place 
such a sign identifying blind and visually impaired patrons so that they 
"know who needs help"! I specifically asked if the person has a choice as to 
whether or not such a placard is placed at their seat and I was told that 
the person is neither asked nor has a choice.
    As to why some did not have such a placard while others did, perhaps it 
is because some did not have anything that would identify them as a blind 
person, e.g., a white cane or guide dog.
    The further question may be if such a practice is discriminatory. As the 
President of the National Association of Guide Dog Users, I am frequently 
asked to intervene in incidents in which discrimination is alleged. 
Discrimination is defined as "differential treatment based upon a 
characteristic". The Americans with Disabilities Act defines three types of 
discrimination:

1. Denial of Benefit;
2. Unequal Benefit; and
3. Separate Benefit.

Placing a sign over someone's seat alerting others to one's disability may 
be viewed as an "unequal benefit", since not everyone has such a sign 
describing to others specific characteristics. One way I frequently use to 
ascertain whether a practice is discriminatory and to describe to others 
what may be discriminatory is to ask, "If this were done based upon race or 
ethnic origin, would it be considered discriminatory?" So, I will ask each 
of you, "If a sign were placed over someone's seat stating that the person 
sitting there is black, would this be discriminatory?
    Section 501(d) of the ADA also states

"Nothing in this Act shall be construed to require an individual with a 
disability to accept an accommodation, aid, service, opportunity, or benefit 
which such individual chooses not to accept."

Since the individual does not have the right to refuse this service, it 
could also be argued that this lack of choice to be identified publicly as 
an individual who is blind is a violation of the ADA.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirk" <kvharmon54 at gmail.com>
To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] Amtrak

> Judith, My thoughts are that I think there is too much vbeing made of this 
> subject, but like yourself, it is just one man's opinion. Your friend in 
> the cause, Kirk
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Judith Hamilton" <jrhamilton51 at earthlink.net>
> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] Amtrak
>
>
>> Just my 2 cent input, but the only thing that I noticed was a white paper
>> tag that I knocked off the rack when I was getting my bag to depart at 
>> the
>> Lakeland station and all it said was "JAX" for Jacksonville.  The 
>> passenger
>> in the seat next to mine was going to Jacksonville and she was just a
>> traveller like everyone else on the train.  I think she got on in Miami
>> where the train started.
>> Judy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> [Original Message]
>>> From: Dan Hicks <danjhicks at yahoo.com>
>>> To: NFB of Florida Listserv <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Date: 6/11/2009 10:03:25 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] Amtrak
>>>
>>> In a word, nope. There was a little sign above our seat. It was white 
>>> and
>>> said something, probably about our destination, but I really don't
>> remember.
>>> I am sure it did not say anything strange like "VI DFB Keep In Sight."
>> And
>>> the same sign was above Gloria's and my seats and  those of others who
>> were
>>> not with our group. I am sure that nobody followed me from car to car. I
>>> don't think they have the staff to do that, unless you happen to 
>>> resemble
>> a
>>> wanted criminal or something.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> "If you are going to walk on thin ice,
>>>  you might as well dance."
>>>                         - Inuit Proverb
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Holly" <hbeanie at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 2:19 PM
>>> Subject: [Nfbf-l] Amtrak
>>>
>>>
>>> > Did anyone notice that while riding Amtrak, there was a green label
>> placed
>>> > above the seat in which read, "VI DFB Keep In Sight"
>>> > When students or myself went from car to car we were followed by one 
>>> > of
>>> > the
>>> > employees. Did this happen to you?
>>> > Holly
>>> >
>>> > -- 
>>> > "God gives you 86,400 seconds in a day. Take one to say Thank You."
>>> > Walter A. Ward
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>>>
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