[Nfbf-l] Amtrak

Sherri flmom2006 at gmail.com
Sat Jun 13 00:44:47 UTC 2009 

If such a sign was placed, it is definitely discriminatory. When I had one 
of my children, they put a sign on my door that said I was blind. My sighted 
sister noticed it and made them take it away. She said I was perfectly 
capable of asking for help if I needed it. We have the right as blind and 
visually impaired people to refuse accommodations and to not have special 
ones forced on us.

Sherri
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] Amtrak


> Kirk,
>    With all due respect, I disagree with the comment that "too much is 
> being made of this"! I am also very disappointed that Holly's concerns are 
> being discounted by our leadership, especially when she has the physical 
> evidence of such a practice. We are, first of all, a civil rights 
> organization. Why is our leadership unwilling to at least look into the 
> possibility that Amtrak violated one of our members civil rights, choosing 
> to discount the discrimination?
>    I contacted Amtrak and spoke with a Customer Service Representative who 
> identified himself as Manne. I was told that it is Amtrak's policy to 
> place such a sign identifying blind and visually impaired patrons so that 
> they "know who needs help"! I specifically asked if the person has a 
> choice as to whether or not such a placard is placed at their seat and I 
> was told that the person is neither asked nor has a choice.
>    As to why some did not have such a placard while others did, perhaps it 
> is because some did not have anything that would identify them as a blind 
> person, e.g., a white cane or guide dog.
>    The further question may be if such a practice is discriminatory. As 
> the President of the National Association of Guide Dog Users, I am 
> frequently asked to intervene in incidents in which discrimination is 
> alleged. Discrimination is defined as "differential treatment based upon a 
> characteristic". The Americans with Disabilities Act defines three types 
> of discrimination:
>
> 1. Denial of Benefit;
> 2. Unequal Benefit; and
> 3. Separate Benefit.
>
> Placing a sign over someone's seat alerting others to one's disability may 
> be viewed as an "unequal benefit", since not everyone has such a sign 
> describing to others specific characteristics. One way I frequently use to 
> ascertain whether a practice is discriminatory and to describe to others 
> what may be discriminatory is to ask, "If this were done based upon race 
> or ethnic origin, would it be considered discriminatory?" So, I will ask 
> each of you, "If a sign were placed over someone's seat stating that the 
> person sitting there is black, would this be discriminatory?
>    Section 501(d) of the ADA also states
>
> "Nothing in this Act shall be construed to require an individual with a 
> disability to accept an accommodation, aid, service, opportunity, or 
> benefit which such individual chooses not to accept."
>
>
> Since the individual does not have the right to refuse this service, it 
> could also be argued that this lack of choice to be identified publicly as 
> an individual who is blind is a violation of the ADA.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kirk" <kvharmon54 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] Amtrak
>
>
>> Judith, My thoughts are that I think there is too much vbeing made of 
>> this subject, but like yourself, it is just one man's opinion. Your 
>> friend in the cause, Kirk
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Judith Hamilton" <jrhamilton51 at earthlink.net>
>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] Amtrak
>>
>>
>>> Just my 2 cent input, but the only thing that I noticed was a white 
>>> paper
>>> tag that I knocked off the rack when I was getting my bag to depart at 
>>> the
>>> Lakeland station and all it said was "JAX" for Jacksonville.  The 
>>> passenger
>>> in the seat next to mine was going to Jacksonville and she was just a
>>> traveller like everyone else on the train.  I think she got on in Miami
>>> where the train started.
>>> Judy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> [Original Message]
>>>> From: Dan Hicks <danjhicks at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: NFB of Florida Listserv <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Date: 6/11/2009 10:03:25 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] Amtrak
>>>>
>>>> In a word, nope. There was a little sign above our seat. It was white 
>>>> and
>>>> said something, probably about our destination, but I really don't
>>> remember.
>>>> I am sure it did not say anything strange like "VI DFB Keep In Sight."
>>> And
>>>> the same sign was above Gloria's and my seats and  those of others who
>>> were
>>>> not with our group. I am sure that nobody followed me from car to car. 
>>>> I
>>>> don't think they have the staff to do that, unless you happen to 
>>>> resemble
>>> a
>>>> wanted criminal or something.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>> "If you are going to walk on thin ice,
>>>>  you might as well dance."
>>>>                         - Inuit Proverb
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Holly" <hbeanie at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 2:19 PM
>>>> Subject: [Nfbf-l] Amtrak
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Did anyone notice that while riding Amtrak, there was a green label
>>> placed
>>>> > above the seat in which read, "VI DFB Keep In Sight"
>>>> > When students or myself went from car to car we were followed by one 
>>>> > of
>>>> > the
>>>> > employees. Did this happen to you?
>>>> > Holly
>>>> >
>>>> > -- 
>>>> > "God gives you 86,400 seconds in a day. Take one to say Thank You."
>>>> > Walter A. Ward
>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>> m
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>
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