[nfbmi-talk] yet another foia request

Thu Apr 29 12:44:14 UTC 2010

It seems to me that if there is a moderator for this list that he/she needs 
to take a hand in this matter. Whether or not someone ought to be doing thus 
and so needs to be handled by the moderator and if not then everyone needs 
to be moving on. In my estimation although this list is a function of the 
NFB of Michigan it needs also to be a list where information which concerns 
NFB members and people who are blind can be sharedl. When we try to limit 
that conversation then we are guilty of one of the very things which we find 
sighted folks doing to us, that is making decisions in our best interests.

Fred Olver

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Elizabeth" <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
To: <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] yet another foia request

First, I have not seen any concrete evidence that states that the person you 
were responding to was in fact Pat Cannon. And even if this is the case, 
calling anyone a bastard on this email list should not be tolerated.

Respectfully,
Elizabeth

> From: joeharcz at comcast.net
> To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 23:29:17 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] yet another foia request
>
> And the original message which you seemed to delete here was from a Pat
> asking Ms. Mann if she would be wearing a long or short skirt in her
> parachute jump. And yes, I'd ask Mr. Cannon if his defensive skirt
> so-to-speak is made out of the "bullet proof" drapes that he squander 
> state
> and federal monies to investigate in 20088 because folks were rightfully
> protesting wrongs in service delivery in Detroit.
>
> Now if service delivery and rehab services aren't a NFB issue than I must
> certainly have joined the wrong organization here. I thought that
> paternalism was to be combated at every front and that has been documented
> to the extreme and more will be coming out soon.
>
> This is certainly a war. The future of rehabilitation services, the BEP
> program, education of our youth who are blind, newly blinded elderly
> citizens, transitional services, and yes, college hang in the balance. Now
> if those are not NFB issues please again steer me to the appropriate
> organization if you would.
>
> I've got a lot of work to do and have a whole lot of other things that I
> could be doing with my time and advocacy efforts.
>
> Oh yes, you might wish to talk with the students at MCB TC and the staff
> about intimidation let alone so-called "flaming"...And you might wish to
> talk with folks like Mark Eagle, Dave Robertson, and Christine about 
> really
> savage smears and actions.
>
> You might just also wish to talk with all the BEP vendors who have been
> smeared by this public official and worse. You might just wish to talk 
> with
> those who have had livelihoods taken from them along with having their
> reputations sullied just to put some frosting on the cake.
>
> While I'm at it you might just wish to look into a crystal ball and in 
> that
> you will see a nightmare of a collapsed MCB with order of selection on the
> horizon as it has been so ineptly mismanaged.
>
> I'm telling you Elizabeth there are going to be a whole lot of students 
> who
> happen to be blind who won't get any college or they'll have to settle for
> the Associate Degree that Pat Cannon has. Not to many folks will get his 
> job
> though with those credentials because that won't be there likely either as
> he has so grossly mismanaged MCB.
>
> Already it has been widely circulated that MRS, MCB's sister agency is out
> some $3 million in federal funds for doing some of the same things Cannon
> has done with the financials. Now think about the consequences of that.
>
> Moreover your attacks have not been on this one post alone, but on all
> posts, including informative ones.
>
> I'm really wonderring what gives here.
>
> Regardless this ain't personal. It's public. Cannon is a public servant 
> and
> highly paid. His actions are total grist for the public mill. And as the
> saying goes, "If he can't stand the heat than get out of the kitchen."
>
> Elizabeth let you rest assured that I and others will continue to keep the
> heat on and, in fact the Freedom of Information Act requests will turn it 
> up
> to high!
>
> Follow the money Elizabeth while there is still a little bit of it left.
>
> Follow the money...
>
> Joe
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Elizabeth" <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
> To: <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 10:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] yet another foia request
>
>
>
> I understand the Constitution of the United States gives people the right 
> to
> free speech. However, the guidelines of this email list are as follows:
>
> We encourage open communication and free-flowing ideas. And, although
> opposing viewpoints are welcome, flaming and bashing are not.
>
> It is possible that I am wrong here, but I believe that the numerous and
> continuous postings that are not directly related to matters of the 
> National
> Federation of the Blind as well as the following post would be considered
> flaming. As a result, I would greatly appreciate if the moderators of this
> list could take some form of action to prevent such flaming on the list 
> from
> occurring as set forth in the guidelines for the list. I believe that
> everyone should be able to enjoy the list without receiving these kinds of
> messages.
>
> Thanks,
> Elizabeth
>
>
> [nfbmi-talk] Sky Dive Event
> joe harcz Comcast joeharcz at comcast.net
> Thu Apr 15 23:46:45 CDT 2010
>
> Excuse me and just who are you and who are you coming from?
>
> You wouldn't be Pat Cannon engaging in overt sexual harassment on this 
> list
> serve would you? I mean even you Pat Cannon wouldn't stoop that far in a
> public capacity would you? I think another FOIA request is in order here
> don't you?
>
> Of course Patrick Cannon, known to be a public employee of the great state
> of Michigan would not stoop so low as we think here would he?
>
> Oh, and by the way what the heck is under your skirt Pat Cannon, official
> Director of the Michigan Commission for the Blind?
>
> I'm not afraid of signing my name you bastard.
>
> My name is "JoE hARCZ .
>
>
>
> > From: joeharcz at comcast.net
> > To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> > Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 07:34:37 -0400
> > Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] yet another foia request
> >
> > I did send this to the FOIA coordinator. And am making this public as
> > public
> > records should be. I'll try to be nice about this Elizabeth. We have the
> > right to know in this country. There are no exclusions for blind folks.
> >
> > Moreover I worked, in the real world of journalism for nearly twenty 
> > years
> > and the activities of public bodies and public servants are just that,
> > public! This particular agency and this particular public official have
> > acted in secret for far too long against all principles of open,
> > transparent
> > and accountable government.
> >
> > By the way this also goes to college policy. Have you not noticed that 
> > the
> > same things keep popping up over and over again? I saw basically the 
> > same
> > college policy that you have been bitten with several years back while I
> > was
> > on the CIC. That CIC by the way and none of your input is valued in the
> > least as noted in those very minutes. And if you are not informed about
> > the
> > extreme implications of MCB's funding issues then one day there just 
> > might
> > not be money to send blind folks to college under any conditions or
> > scenarios. It sure has happened a whole lot in other states, especially
> > for
> > graduate programs.
> >
> > As far as so-called personal attack goes. There is no such thing for
> > public
> > officials as parody and satire are protected expression under the First
> > Amendment of the United States and several U.S. Supreme Court
> > determinations.
> >
> > now, this will be my last word on this issue as I have better things to
> > do.
> > However, be assured that my First Amendment rights are not chilled in 
> > the
> > least here and nor is my quest to shed some sunshine upon the workings 
> > of
> > MCB which, does impact the lives of blind people statewide.
> >
> > I wish you a pleasant day and all the best in advocacy.
> >
> > Joe
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Elizabeth" <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
> > To: <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] yet another foia request
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello Joe,
> >
> > I am not able to fulfill your freedom of information request because I
> > simply do not have the information you have requested. I am simply an
> > average blind citizen living in the state of Michigan. However, if you
> > send
> > this information to the Freedom of Information Coordinators, I am sure
> > they
> > will be able to fulfill your request.
> >
> > This is an email list for the National Federation of the Blind of
> > Michigan,
> > and is intended to discuss matters related to our organization. It 
> > should
> > not be simply a dumping ground for those who wish to air their 
> > grievances
> > regarding the Michigan Commission for the Blind. I ask that you keep 
> > this
> > in
> > mind when posting to the list, as I do not wish to receive a copy of 
> > every
> > freedom of information request you send to the Michigan Commission for 
> > the
> > Blind.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Elizabeth
> >
> >
> > > From: joeharcz at comcast.net
> > > To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> > > Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 22:52:00 -0400
> > > Subject: [nfbmi-talk] yet another foia request
> > >
> > > Re: FOIA Request June 20, 2008 Recording MCB Quarterly Meeting
> > >
> > > April 27, 2010
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul Joseph Harcz, Jr.
> > >
> > > 1365 E. Mt. Morris Rd.
> > >
> > > Mt. Morris, MI 48458
> > >
> > > E-mail: joeharcz at comcast.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Melvin Farmer, DELEG, FOIA Coordinator
> > >
> > > E-mail: farmerc at michigan.gov
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Carla Haynes, MCB, FOIA
> > >
> > > E-mail: haynesc at michigan.gov
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Mr. Farmer and Ms. Haynes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am writing you today to request the audio recording of the June 20,
> > > 2008
> > > meeting of the Michigan Commission for the Blind pursuant to the
> > > Michigan
> > > Freedom of Information Act referenced in this quotation:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > “ Mike Ellis advised Commissioners that there had not been audio
> > > streaming
> > > because there was equipment failure. The Commission will have audio 
> > > that
> > >
> > > has been captured.”
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am requesting this without any fee pursuant to past actions and
> > > identification on either a flashcard or CD (the latter of which has 
> > > been
> > > sent to me in the past and is satisfactory).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It may simply be mailed as in the past to my e-mail address listed
> > > above.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I do wonder aloud here about one thing however: Why aren’t these
> > > recordings simply archived on MCB’s web site which certainly would be 
> > > in
> > > the public interest? I am puzzled by this as also in this same meeting
> > > minutes in the discussion of the MCB Action plan this was referenced
> > > directly. I quote from the minutes here on the matter:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > “3.4 Enhance the MCB website including adding audio files of agency
> > > brochures, videos and archived quarterly Commission meetings.
> > >
> > > Status: Future meetings will be archived when the space becomes
> > > available
> > > through DMB. Three of MCB's brochures are currently available on 
> > >  line.”
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I certainly would consider it to be compliant with this request if MCB
> > > simply would put these archived recordings in accessible manner on 
> > > their
> > > own web site as suggested over and over again including the above
> > > reference which is almost two years old.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It appears that we have some issues with timely delivery and
> > > availability
> > > of public information. The state web sites could well be used to 
> > > deliver
> > > timely, material like this in the spirit of transparency, open
> > > governance
> > > and accountability. Governor Grandholm has often discussed 
> > > transparency
> > > including efforts in that regard recently on her web site. I would
> > > appreciate it if DELEG and MCB also was more forthcoming and acted 
> > > more
> > > affirmatively in these regards. It certainly would, among other things
> > > ensure that I, and others would not be so burdened with making FOIA
> > > requests. And, for that matter you and the staff at DELEG would 
> > > likewise
> > > not have to be so burdened with these issues as well.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I offer the latter observations in the spirit of cooperation and
> > > positive
> > > input from a citizen of this state who just happens to be blind.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Very Truly Yours,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul Joseph Harcz, Jr.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cc: Commissioners Michigan Commission for the Blind
> > >
> > > Cc: National Federation of the Blind of Michigan
> > >
> > > Cc: Michigan Council of the Blind and Visually Impaired
> > >
> > > Cc: Michigan Protection and Advocacy Services, Inc.
> > >
> > > Cc: Michael Cox, Michigan Attorney General
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
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