[nfbmi-talk] Playing Devil's advocate here

Mon Mar 15 20:52:21 UTC 2010

Hello Jackie,

Thank you for contributing your thoughts on this topic. One of the reasons why I am posting this topic to the list is to receive the thoughts and opinions of others. While I agree that students should be responsible for filling out the same financial aid forms as their sighted counterparts, I do not agree that blind students should have to fill out a mountain of additional financial aid forms simply because they are blind and are receiving services from the Michigan Commission for the Blind.

The way that it was explained to me in person as well as the way it is currently written in the proposed changes to the college policy, the new financial aid process for students who receive services from the Commission seems to be more of a burden to the student than anything else. In addition to the regular financial aid forms that any student is required to fill out, there will be a separate financial form that both the student and the college would have to fill out in order for a student to receive financial assistance from the Commission. My understanding is that students will be required to list all their sources of income as well as personal expenses on this form. They will then need to submit the form to the college to compare the student’s income and expenses against what it costs to attend the college. Once the student receives this form from the college, they will then need to submit it to their counselor to determine how much the student, as well as the student’s family if they are still considered a dependent according to the definition under the federal financial aid rules, will contribute to the cost associated with their college education.

Now I’m all for blind students taking an active role in their college education, but is this proposed policy reasonable for blind students, or is it simply just another burden to be placed on them to prevent them from seeking out their dreams? I am in no way opposed to blind students being responsible for financially contributing to their college education. I am just wondering how we should go about doing it in a way that seems fair for everyone.

Respectfully,
Elizabeth

> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:57:06 -0400
> From: jacalynpaulding at gmail.com
> To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] Playing Devil's advocate here
> 
> Good morning fellow federationists,
> 
> I am just curious about a few things here. Please know that these are
> thoughts, I am not trying to disagree with you guys. I agree but I have the
> following thoughts.
> 
> If parent's income is considered for all other financial aid, then wny
> shouldn't it be considered for assistance for financing from the comission?
> 
> Why shouldn't students who are blind be responsible for paperwork for their
> education? Self determination and advocacy are KEY components to
> independence. So, I think that students who are blind should be expected to
> complete paperwork necessary for all financial assistance just like their
> peers who are sighted.
> 
> My heart is that all blind young people who want to go to college will have
> every opportunity to allow them to do so. BUT I think that there are
> barriers for all students with financial aid, self advocacy and
> independence. I think that kids who are blind should be held to the same
> standards for college acceptance, financial aid and preformance as their
> sighted peers.
> 
> I know that I am going to be shot for thsi or disowned but just to play the
> devil's advocate why shouldn't students who are blind be expected to
> contribute and work for their college education. I left my undergrad with
> $18000 in student loans because I decided not to take assistance from state
> VR. As I pay off this debt I appreciate my education and I feel like an
> average college graduate. Self sacrifice is necessary for progress in most
> aspects of life.
> 
> Just some thoughts,
> Jackie Paulding
> 
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:48 AM, Ann Petrous <annpetrous at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I truly hope that the more students speak out, the more improvements will
> > be
> > made. I can't begin to tell you all the mounting frustration in dealing
> > with these people. I would hate for anyone to have to go through what I
> > went
> > through. I hope better policies will be made so that no more problems or
> > frustrations will accurr
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> > On Behalf Of Fred Wurtzel
> > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:32 PM
> > To: 'NFB of Michigan List'
> > Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Should Students Participate in College Costs?
> >
> > Hi Elizabeth,
> >
> > I agree, completely, with what you say, here. Though Geri Taeckens has
> > worked hard and has made some positive improvements, this policy is severly
> > lacking and is an anti blind student policy document. It needs to be
> > thrown
> > out and written from the ground upp.
> >
> > If the Commission wants the college to complete another form, it needs to
> > be
> > their responsibility to do so, not the student's. It will turn into a
> > gotcha game and keep some eligible people from going to school. The
> > federal
> > government already asks for all the needed information, why should the
> > student have to do it again?
> >
> > How about not giving those who change majors additional time. In some
> > cases, it may add another year to the time needed to finish. If the IPE
> > approves a change, then all policies for college attendance should then
> > apply.
> >
> > Even though the MOU section has been changed, it still does not require the
> > Commission to step in and resolve the problem. Despite promises at our
> > convention, Kerry Bradly did not ever get her math book in Braille. The
> > Commission was not able to do a simple thing like get a book Brailled, how
> > will they resolve complex technical problems?
> >
> > I hope students are in the audience on Friday to voice their concerns and
> > objections to this horrible policy.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> > On Behalf Of Elizabeth
> > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:48 PM
> > To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: [nfbmi-talk] Should Students Participate in College Costs?
> >
> >
> > Thanks to all of you who have commented on my revisions to the college
> > policy either on or off the list. However, as I have thought about some
> > things a bit more, I am wondering weather or not college students should
> > help with the cost of going to college. In a previous version I submitted
> > to
> > the Consumer Involvement Committee Chair, I included a section on students
> > contributing financially to the costs of their college education based on
> > the dollar amount awarded to those who receive Supplemental Security
> > Income.
> > I did not include it in this draft simply because it sounded a bit
> > confusing
> > to me, and I was not quite sure how to write it so that it would be less
> > confusing. I will post it below for your comments and suggestions.
> >
> > But I guess what I am really wondering is weather or not students should be
> > responsible for contributing financially to the costs of their college
> > education. I am currently not a consumer of the agency, nor do I live on
> > campus, so I cannot comment on whether or not this is currently the
> > procedure. However, from what little I have heard about the new DELEG form
> > is that it would require all students to write down all their current
> > expenses and sources of income to determine how much a student's family,
> > not
> > the individual student, can financially contribute towards their college
> > education.
> >
> > Personally, I am not in favor of this new system for a couple of reasons.
> > The first one being that I don't think it is the Commission's business to
> > know every detail of how a student chooses to spend, save, and use every
> > cent of their income. Second, I don't think that it is right for the
> > Commission to consider the income of student's parents when they are
> > serving
> > the individual and not the family. The last time I checked, the income of
> > someone's parent, especially for someone over the age of eighteen, was not
> > a
> > source of comparable benefits. And finally, looking at a students income as
> > a way to determine vocational services is basically saying that you have to
> > pay to play, or in this case to receive an education. And since the income
> > of the student's parents is considered as part of the equation, the amount
> > the student has to pay could very well be beyond what the student can
> > afford.
> >
> > So, I don't know, should students be required to help pay for their college
> > education, and if so, how exactly do we create a system that is simple and
> > fair to all students? I mean, after all, the client of the Commission is
> > the
> > student and not the student's parents. And even though the financial aid
> > system may include the parent's income, does that mean that the Commission
> > needs to do the same as well even though they are serving the student and
> > not the parents? Anyways, who the heck knows, maybe I'm just making a
> > mountain out of a mole hill, but I'm just a little ticked off that the
> > Commission has been working on this thing for almost two years now, and
> > still has yet to have a discussion about this new DELEG form that appears
> > to
> > be magically hidden into the policy. I don't know, I guess I'm just pissed
> > off about the whole process in general, and the fact that the college
> > policy
> > is on the agenda when I was told that it would not be ready in time for
> > this
> > meeting.
> >
> > Elizabeth
> >
> > --------------------------
> >
> > Student Contribution:
> >
> > Students requesting sponsorship from the Michigan Commission for the Blind
> > will be required to make a small contribution to their college or
> > vocational
> > training. The purpose of this contribution is to prepare students for
> > financial responsibility after graduation. Before a student can receive
> > sponsorship from the Michigan Commission for the Blind, they must complete
> > and sign a copy of the Student Contribution form indicating their level of
> > contribution. Students giving a financial contribution shall be responsible
> > for making payments directly to the college or university. If students
> > cannot make the payment all at once, they are encouraged to ask the college
> > or university about monthly payment plans.
> >
> > All students who choose to live on campus and subscribe to a dining program
> > will be required to pay the register's office one-half the current amount
> > awarded to Supplemental Security Income (SSI) beneficiaries. All students
> > who choose to live on campus, but do not subscribe to a dining service will
> > be required to pay the register's office one-third the amount awarded to
> > Supplemental Security Income (SSI) beneficiaries. Any student who does not
> > live on campus will be responsible for all expenses associated with
> > off-campus housing. It will be expected that all students will be
> > responsible for making this contribution regardless of their level of
> > income.
> >
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