[nfbmi-talk] anyone see problems with this?

joe harcz Comcast joeharcz at comcast.net
Fri May 14 19:59:25 UTC 2010


Another comment here:

Bottom line is they are just making things up as they go along. They are 
pulling things out of their magic hats (trying to be nice here). And they 
are all trying to dazzle we poor old blind folks with positions and titles.

Well that may work on the no nothings on the board, but it doesn't wash with 
the rest of us.

As a parting shot at them I asked RSA yesterday about some technical 
assistance for our board. And it was recommended that I alert them to the 
online SRC training that I posted yesterday. Then after further conversation 
we both agreed that they don't need technical assistence but rather a "baby 
sitter".

I think that also goes for our Attorney General's office too.

And people don't really know what I think about what they should do to 
Cannon except maybe he should forfeit his pension to re-fund the programs in 
part that he is destroying.

Peace with Justice,

Joe
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christine Boone" <Christine_Boone at comcast.net>
To: "'NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List'" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] anyone see problems with this?


>I spent several years working as the attorney for a state agency that was
> overseen by a public board much like the
> Commission for the Blind in Michigan.  When a lawyer provides information 
> to
> such a body, that information does not always fall under the protection of
> attorney client privilege.  The assistant attorney general seems to infer
> that the mere existence of a written document from an attorney to her 
> client
> will trigger that privilege.  However, the attorney client privilege is
> triggered by the subject matter that is being discussed, regardless of
> whether or not the attorney's words have been reduced to writing.
>
> For example: if the attorney is dealing with a matter of litigation, a
> personnel issue, any transaction involving real property, or any other
> specific topic that is individually protected by a particular law, that
> communication is confidential whether or not it is in writing.  When the
> attorney is dealing with issues concerning the responsibilities of the
> board, that subject is already a matter of public record, being thoroughly
> outlined in statute.  Therefore, the attorney client privilege cannot be
> used as a means of defeating the provisions of the Open Meetings Act, even
> if the attorney delivers her opinion in writing.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of David Robinson
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 2:00 PM
> To: 'NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] anyone see problems with this?
>
> Dear Joe,
>
>   I would question the attorney/client privledge on several of the items
> which the commissioners stated that they discussed during closed session.
> It appears tht issues such as how to evaluate the director providing 
> public
> comment time and how to review ALJ decisions  are secret.  When in fact, 
> the
> issues discussed are clearly outlined in the law and consumer imput is and
> has been part of the overall determination of who these issues are to be
> handled.
>   I hope the secret discussion was helful, but I don't see why all of it
> could not have been in the open.  It again gives consumers the idea that 
> the
> director is trying to hide something and do what he can to manipulate the
> Commission board by giving them some mislead legal perimeters.
>   I do believe that most of the commissioners want to do the right thing,
> but I also know for a fact that Pat Cannon will do all that he can to
> protect himself and his agenda to destroy all that is good for the blind 
> of
> Michigan.   After all, don'tforget, Barbara Schmidt is the assistant a. g.
> who provide the interpretation of the law regarding catering which the NFB
> attorney proved to be a complete falsehood and did great damage to the BEP
> operators.
>   You cannot trust anyone of Cannon's crew as they have an enirerly
> different agenda.  They are out to protect their job and destroy the
> livelihood of the blind.  They will keep lieing, keep trying to be 
> operating
> in secret, but I the lies will not last and the truth will prevail.
>
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of joe harcz Comcast
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 10:54 AM
> To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] anyone see problems with this?
>
> PROPOSED - OPEN SESSION
>
>
>
>
>
> MICHIGAN COMMISSION FOR THE BLIND
> May 3, 2010
> 201 N. WASHINGTON SQ.
>
> LANSING, MI  48933
>
>
>
> SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
> OPEN SESSION
>
>
>
> COMMISSIONERS PRESENT
> Ms. Jo Ann Pilarski, Chair                         Ms. Geri Taeckens
>
> Mr. Michael Geno, Vice Chair                  Ms. Margaret Wolfe
>
> Mr. John Scott (via telephone)
>
>
>
>
>
> COMMISSIONERS ABSENT
>
> None
>
>
>
> Michigan Commission for the Blind (MCB) STAFF PRESENT
>
> Mr. Patrick Cannon                                   Ms. Carrie Martin
>
>
>
> GUESTS/ATTENDEES
>
> Ms. Barbara Schmidt, Assistant Attorney General
>
> Mr. Terry Eagle                                         Mr. Mark Eagle
>
>
> Mr. Fred Wurtzel                                       Mr. Joe Sontag
>
> Ms. Grace Menzel
>
>
>
> CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL AND DETERMINATION OF QUORUM
>
>
> The special meeting was called to order by Chair Jo Ann Pilarski at 9:15
> a.m.  Roll call was taken and a quorum was present.
>
>
>
> Review of Open Meetings Act  - Barbara Schmidt, Assistant Attorney General
>
>
>
>            Chair Pilarski asked Barbara Schmidt to provide the wording 
> that
> allows the Commissioners to go into a closed session.  Barbara Schmidt
> explained that the Open Meetings Act (OMA) allows a Board or Commission to
> go into a closed session to discuss a document or memo or anything that is
> privileged by law.  A memo from the commission's attorney is a privileged
> document under Michigan law.  Therefore, the OMA allows the Commission to
> vote to go into a closed meeting.
>
>
>
> Ms. Wolfe moved to go into closed session.
>
> Ms. taeckens seconded the motion.
>
> decision to go into closed session supported.
>
>
>
> Roll Call vote
>
> Aye:  Geri Taeckens, Margaret Wolfe, Michael Geno
>
> Nay:  none
>
> Abstention:  none
>
>
>
> note: Mr. John scott did not vote because his appointment by governor
> jennifer Granholm was just made and he has not yet signed the oath of 
> office
>
>
>
> *******Closed session is privileged attorney/client contact and protected 
> by
> the laws of the State of Michigan***********
>
>
>
> The Commissioners reconvened the meeting into Open session at 11:25 a.m.
> Open session began with Chair Pilarski and other Commissioners summarizing
> the topics that were discussed in the closed session. Chair Pilarski 
> stated
> that there was discussion regarding the handling of public comment.  Mr.
> Geno stated that there was discussion regarding the Board relationship 
> with
> the Director.
>
> There was also discussion on how Commissioners can more effectively review
> and act upon recommendations from Administrative Law Judges (ALJs) for 
> cases
> that are brought before the Commission.  Ms. Barbara Schmidt provided a
> summary of the role of the Board regarding civil service employees.  It 
> was
> also stated that the Commissioners cannot communicate with any party
> involved in litigation with the Commission.
>
>
>
>
>
> Public Comment
>
>
>
> Mr. Terry Eagle questioned why Commissioner Scott was not allowed to vote
> and why he would be attending a meeting in which he was not allowed to 
> vote.
> Commissioner Scott explained that even though he is appointed, he has not
> yet signed his oath of office and therefore could not vote.
>
> Mr. Joe Sontag expressed that there are some suspicions among the blind
> community that the RSA report is not being made available to the public.
> The Commissioners responded by saying that the final report has not been
> made available to them yet.  Director Cannon stated that the Commission 
> has
> received a draft report to which it has responded and is awaiting RSA's
> final report. When the RSA final report is issued it will be broadly
> distributed by the Commission.
>
> Mr. Fred Wurtzel stated that PA 260 directly refers to the OMA in which it
> says that a closed meeting may be held to review personnel issues.  He 
> went
> on to say that there is no layer between the Director and staff, so there 
> is
> no oversight review system.  The second concern he raised was with regards
> to the review duties as prescribed in PA 260 for the Commission Board to 
> do
> an evaluation of the Director. He stated that he would expect that the
> Director be evaluated on the same basis as all other state employees.
>
>
>
> Adjournment
>
>
>
> Ms. Taeckens moved to adjourn,
>
> Ms. Wolfe supported. The motion passed unanimously.
>
>
>
> The meeting was adjourned at 11:54 a.m.
>
>
>
> _______________________________
>
> Chair Jo Ann Pilarski
>
>
>
> Date:-------------------------___________________________
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