[nfbmi-talk] Fw: This works well!
Georgia Kitchen
gakitchen at gfn.org
Sun Jun 26 00:42:56 UTC 2011
Hi cheryl,
I feel you are right. Al Harris and I used to talk about picking your
battles.
Just my two cents.
Georgia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cheryl Wade" <wadecher at msu.edu>
To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Fw: This works well!
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
> Sent: Saturday, June 25 Greetings,
>
> I am pretty much an outsider on this list, sort of standing by and
> flirting at the edges of conversation. But I would like to add to Donna's
> note that people must pick their battles. When we fight, what things are
> symbolic, what things are political and what things simply fuel our anger?
> Can we spend the same amount of time and, for that matter, wind, to fight
> each and every indignity we perceive to have been vaunted upon us?
> Sometimes, we rip open partially healed wounds by demanding everything
> with equal tenacity.
>
> People who are blind are not the only people who feel robbed of dignity.
> It happens every day, to every ilk of person. Some things -- we just have
> to let them go.
>
> Cheryl Wade , 2011 1:37 PM
> To: <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] Fw: This works well!
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Donna Rose
>> To: joe harcz Comcast
>> Cc: Joe Sibley ; Fred Wurtzel ; Jo Ann Pilarski ; John Scott ; 'Larry
>> Posont' ; Lydia Schuck ; Mike Geno ; Terry Eagle ; Patrick Cannon ; Mark
>> Eagle ; Charis Austin ; Casey Dutmer ; Deb Wild
>> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 2:20 PM
>> Subject: This works well!
>>
>>
>> Joe,
>>
>> Yep, this is how it works. You have just proved my point. Those insults
>> have gotten me right on board with you. Thanks so much for pointing out
>> your view of my life and its lack of meaning to the world in your email
>> below. I am so sorry that so many of us don't live up to your
>> expectations. Good thing you are there to tell us all what we are
>> supposed to be doing. I couldn't live without this guidance. lol
>>
>> You are not the God of civil rights. Anyone can sit all day at their
>> computer hurling out insults under the guise of the law. It's easy to
>> attack people when you know they have to just sit there and take it, like
>> the State employees. By the way, I am not one of them. It doesn't help
>> any cause to abuse them or anyone else.
>> Being right is right, but name calling and insulting won't get you
>> anywhere. You have to act as if you are at least able to keep your head,
>> not be a bully and help people be invested in you and your position.
>> Otherwise people just shut down even if you are asking for legally
>> mandated access. Yes, we need progress. I agree, and it won't be done
>> one civil rights case at a time or even one person at a time. Otherwise
>> it will take forever or revert back when we go away or die.
>>
>> It takes unity, something the blind community has yet to achieve. If the
>> message is fueled too much by anger it implodes on itself. Martin Luther
>> King Jr. knew this and Malcolm X learned it too. Both men lost their
>> lives because of their understanding of this powerful premise, unity.
>>
>> This lack of unity is the sole reason we have made such little progress,
>> while other disability groups have flourished in their ability to send a
>> common message, and have the legal progress our population lacks.
>>
>> you are not an advocate for me or anyone else if this is the way you want
>> to do things. You are just a grandiose angry old man, taking on the role
>> of a victim.
>>
>> I am not a helpless victim and have done and will do just fine whether or
>> not the world ever complies with the laws I desire to see fulfilled. You
>> are not working to rescue me or anyone else. I can rescue myself and do
>> it without resistance. It is a matter of a sense of self power and
>> control. I have chosen to have both. I can get more done in one hour
>> with my diplomacy, which you call" nicey nicey",than you will achieve in
>> a life time. I do it everyday. I am so proud I am not like you.
>>
>> I will stay tuned to see how it all unfolds for you Joe. My prediction
>> is the Commission will soon be combined with MRS as administrators who
>> make such decisions are becoming sick of all of the fighting, name
>> calling, insults, immaturity and general three ring circus. Just wait!
>>
>> This will be my last message on this topic. Thanks again for your
>> poignant message! You really crack me up!
>>
>>
>> Go Bravely,
>> Donna Rose, LMSW
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: joe harcz Comcast
>> To: Donna Rose
>> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 7:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: call for enforcement of ada
>>
>>
>> This is simply psycho-babble. The law is the law. The reason that these
>> scofflaw institutions get away with continuous violations of our
>> individual and collective civil rights is that people don't make a stand
>> and don't demand from public officials and our government full and
>> complete compliance with this civil rights law that is now more than
>> twenty years old and with Section 504 which is older.
>>
>> As both stated in statute and regulation the heads of these entities are
>> ultimately responsible and, indeed accountable!
>>
>> Your message is muddled with the standard pabulum of shooting the
>> messenger for documented violations and the psycho-babble of
>> presentation. Section 504 itself was brought into being by several
>> lawsuits and by mass acts of civil disobedience including the longest
>> takeover of federal buildings in this country's history. And some of
>> them were with ACB by the way including a former ACB president. He was a
>> radical and check out your history on this. Mr. Rohern whom I didn't know
>> has my admiration, but many timid and sell out types branded him an angry
>> "radical".
>> And there were those in NFB and NAD and other groups whom were much more
>> active in formulating and fighting for civil rights than I am or was at
>> the last or other meetings. What a mealy mouth you are Donna.
>>
>> Oh yea they had sell outs in the community who said, "Those people were
>> "angry" or "too radical". Yet the rights you got and your very home
>> relative to your aforementioned complaints were brought about by those
>> who acted.
>>
>> You Donna are indeed a "Fort Indian". I know that and my "Chippewa"
>> blood slight as it is tells me that in your very words and actions here.
>> Ho!
>>
>> And that comes from one who with ADAPT has engaged in acts of civil
>> disobedience for the rights of all disabled including several takeovers
>> of state, federal and other buildings. It comes from one who has acted in
>> acts of civil disobedience to outrages of the government during the
>> Vietnam War and other wars and who in fact has been arrested, tear gassed
>> and assaulted by police powers for actively putting my life on the line,
>> non-violently for my rights and the rights of others.
>> It comes from one who has engaged in the "Days of Mourning" actions at
>> Plymouth, Massachusetts on several occasions.
>>
>> The accountability measures I demand now and forever of VR institutions
>> including MCB are mild. Your and other supercilious glad handers are
>> fiddling while Rome burns. No, you donna have got yours and now blame
>> victims of mass discrimination. for asking and demanding social justice
>> for others while not receiving or asking for one thin dime of
>> compensation by the way.
>>
>> Oh yea we need one more freaking sell out who gets a pay check to be a
>> temporary "ADA coordinator" for not complying. what a freaking sham.
>>
>>
>>
>> If your way work for all then we'd have compliance eh?
>>
>> Let's all hold hands and sing songs eh?
>>
>> Ho!
>>
>> You are an "Aunt Tom-Tom" both in this community and in others.
>>
>> Ho!
>>
>> Oh yea and the BRA issue goes to the right to satire and parody and the
>> defensiveness and those sorts of excuses for the elites is just that.
>>
>> What silly little contradictions you present here Donna! It's all form
>> over substance. All a defense of perpetrators of mass discrimination over
>> ephemeral issues. It is all "Aunt Tom-Tomism" and again blaming the
>> victim for crying "rape" when being raped by a scofflaw system and
>> scofflaw public employees like Cannon, Highly paid ones at that by the
>> way.
>>
>> I'm sick to death of everyone covering the ass of documented abusers
>> which get paid $125,000 per year like Cannon and pointing the finger,
>> including the middle finger, at the abused. And then signing up or
>> enlisting willing suck ups like yourself to again point the finger at the
>> likes of me for presentation" of message and not the actual villains. Oh
>> yea and there are issues of accountability like simply asking where in
>> the flying fig all the federal, trust and other monies have gone with no
>> coherent answer to accountability over the public trust which is supposed
>> to be something that purported leftists and (so-called right wingers
>> rightfully call for. We both call for the basics of reporters and that
>> is: "who, what, when, why, where and how. We call for public openness and
>> transparency and above all else accountability of our government! Yet,
>> the likes of you again put form over substance and miss the rights
>> involved and violated here and it all becomes a "suck up to the
>> perpetrators" sort of thing whether you know it or not.
>>
>>
>> It is like those racist who slaughtered our people saying, "Look at
>> those angry savages who we just persecuted along the "trail of Tears"
>> getting all pissed off at us killing them off. See how angry they are!"
>>
>> Ho!
>>
>> Blind people and others with disabilities have been and are being pushed
>> over the cliff in this state daily by a corrupted "reservation system"
>> and listen to me and listen good "sister": "You better figure out whether
>> or not you are going to be a part of the problem or part of the
>> solution!"
>>
>> Psycho-babble and dancing with the very perpetrators and denigrating
>> advocates as you've done here over and over again is part of the problem
>>
>> Ho!
>>
>> Anger is irrelevant except that if one is not angry at such documented
>> injustices then I contend that one is either an "idiot" or just doesn't
>> care as Ani di Franco wrote.
>>
>> Finally Donna here is a piece of poetry read at a day of mourning that
>> should apply to all victims of persecution and if people ain't angry at
>> persecution including persecution of the blind, again they are stupid or
>> just don't care:
>>
>> First Public Reading
>>
>> Thanksgiving Day, 1999
>>
>> Cope's Hill
>>
>> (Overlooking Plymouth Rock)
>>
>> Plymouth, Massachusetts
>>
>> The National Day of Mourning
>>
>>
>>
>> Fever blankets
>>
>> By joe harcz
>>
>> Second draft Tuesday october 25 1999
>>
>>
>>
>> Wrapped in fever blankets
>>
>> Sores redden, bodies shiver
>>
>> Genocide for land and trinkets
>>
>> Our great white brothers
>>
>> In christian charity
>>
>> Relieve us from heathen ways
>>
>> By sowing maladies
>>
>> Reaping a harvest crazed
>>
>> Calling for visions
>>
>> And power from mother earth
>>
>> Our festering religions
>>
>> Weeping for rebirth
>>
>> And resurrection
>>
>> Of time told ways
>>
>> Fighting for clarity
>>
>> Amidst the dying haze
>>
>> Stillborn hope mockingly
>>
>> Dancing with the ghosts
>>
>> Mistaking it for a vision
>>
>> To deliver us from the hosts
>>
>> Descended upon our shores
>>
>> Shivering in fever blankets
>>
>> Promised blistered sores
>>
>> A people once proud
>>
>> Whose death roars
>>
>> Strong and loud
>>
>> Through the ages
>>
>> Until truth can be
>>
>> Told even on paper pages
>>
>> Setting spirits free
>>
>> Denied no more
>>
>> Whispering tears on the wind
>>
>> Healing scars and sores
>>
>> Soft penance for the sins
>>
>> Bringing forth new life
>>
>> A child called truth
>>
>> Spirits arise from strife
>>
>> A people from the mouth
>>
>> Of god come to life
>>
>> As father sky
>>
>> Opens truth beyond pain
>>
>> Those dead and dying
>>
>> Walk among us again
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Donna Rose
>> To: joe harcz Comcast
>> Cc: Joe Sibley ; Mike Geno ; Fred Wurtzel ; Lydia Schuck ; Jo Ann
>> Pilarski ; Patrick Cannon ; John Scott ; 'Larry Posont' ; Terry Eagle ;
>> Mark Eagle
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: call for enforcement of ada
>>
>>
>> Joe,
>>
>> Yes, you do have the right to speak of your grievances. I am only
>> suggesting thinking about a different way of presenting them so you can
>> be heard and not dismissed as a nut or something. You could make great
>> progress with your knowledge, but it's all in the presentation. There
>> are always more ways than one to solve a problem. I don't want us to
>> throw away the baby with the bath water as it were.
>>
>> It's like you didn't even read my entire message!
>>
>> I am not ignoring my rights to equal access, but I refuse to allow any
>> agency, person or governmental entity to have so much power over me that
>> I am consumed by anger. Life is too short. Kidney failure and staying
>> alive by means of a dialysis machine has taught me to prioritize. I
>> could die tomorrow waiting for a kidney and I will not allow the crap
>> that happens in this hard life to ruin today for me.
>>
>> That doesn't mean I am unaware of those things which need to be done,
>> such as issues related to equal access. You don't have to prove to me
>> your position. I get it. I can be gritty and scrap with the best of
>> them, after all I was born in Detroit. I am not a fort Indian and will
>> not accept that label.
>>
>> If you don't rethink how you are portraying your message and
>> prioritize your issues, though, you won't be heard. That will serve
>> noone. It may already be too late.
>>
>> I suppose you will choose the path of most resistance as usual and
>> view my comments here as null and void! Positive results are so much
>> harder to gain this way, but knock yourself out!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Go Bravely,
>> Donna Rose, LMSW
>>
>> Shiny Paper Is the Enemy!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: joe harcz Comcast
>> To: Donna Rose
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: call for enforcement of ada
>>
>>
>> Donna,
>>
>> I have the right as an agreived party to demand my civil rights and
>> to points out years of violations.
>>
>> And I have the right to demand public accountability.
>>
>> If you choose to ignore your rights and they were violated at the
>> MCB meeting too. So be it.
>>
>> Joe
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Donna Rose
>> To: joe harcz Comcast ; nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Joe Sibley MCBVI Pres. ; Charis Austin ;
>> casey354 at sbcglobal.net ; Michael Geno ; Elmer Cerano MPAS ; TOM MASSEAU
>> MPAS ; Jeanette Brown MI CAP ; Richard Bernstein Esq ; Jo Anne Pilarski
>> MCB, Chair ; Larry Posont ; lydia schuck ; John Scott MCB, Commissioner ;
>> Fred Wurtzel ; Terry Eagle ; Patrick Cannon ; M ark Eagle
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 1:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: call for enforcement of ada
>>
>>
>> Joe, H.,
>>
>> Your message is right. I want the government to follow all its
>> civil rights and other laws. Our previous resolution needs to be
>> redistributed and I will work on that. MCBVI often addresses
>> governmental issues by way of distribution of resolutions, letter writing
>> and by phone, but not always in public forums.
>>
>> You need to be aware that the leadership of MCBVI are busy working
>> to make a living and our time is limited as a result. We are out
>> grabbing the American Dream and so we must prioritize some of the issues
>> you raise and develop ways to bring about positive changes as efficiently
>> as possible. We believe empowerment and adequate preparation lead to
>> opportunity, so we are always helping individuals along the path to
>> personal success.
>>
>> I have lived my whole life without proper accommodations, and
>> although I want braille signage and other accommodations, I must
>> prioritize those violations which are the most important to me. There
>> just isn't enough time in each day to tackle every issue when a person
>> works.
>>
>> You know I have filed civil rights complaints many times as
>> related to higher ed and fair housing and have won in all cases. But
>> filing complaints is a cumbersome and lengthily process. I have learned
>> there are often more efficient ways to get what we want and need.
>>
>> Did it ever occur to you instead of filing complaints all over the
>> place that you ask the current governor diplomatically for a separate
>> part time ADA Coordinator? A person who could dedicate his/her whole
>> time to this effort would be very helpful. With your vast understanding
>> of accessibility laws you should consider applying for such a position.
>>
>> In Addition, I would like to mention the following to you. You
>> might want to think about why we are having MCB meetings in secured
>> buildings now. Could it be that MCB staff feel physically threatened by
>> some of the audience behavior and the way comments are made? For
>> example, at the last meeting you said something about being a member of
>> the Blind Rifle Association. You may have meant this jokingly, but the
>> obsessive tone of your comments is often so angry people begin to wonder
>> about your intent and feel threatened, including me. It is very
>> off-putting and unprofessional to have individuals yelling during public
>> comments or shouting during the meetings. MCB Commission meetings are
>> for the purpose of conducting business, which should be related to issues
>> of blindness rehab and job acquisition. Whether Pat Cannon is the ADA
>> Coordinator, or not, has nothing to do with these meetings unless it is
>> on the agenda.
>>
>> Each of these people are civil servants, and the Commissioners are
>> volunteers. They aren't necessarily our enemies, just human beings
>> trying to do the best job they know how to do. In order to help them
>> understand when they make mistakes, we have to keep our cool so they will
>> listen.
>>
>> Joe, we all get very angry at the politics in government, but
>> harnessing that anger properly will make more of a lasting impression
>> when dealing with bureaucrats. Otherwise you lose your creditability and
>> then, even when you are right, no one listens. You are too intelligent
>> to allow this to happen to you.
>>
>> I hope you will accept these comments in the spirit of unity in
>> which they are extended for the good of the entire cause.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Go Bravely,
>> Donna Rose, LMSW
>>
>> Shiny Paper Is the Enemy!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: joe harcz Comcast
>> To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Joe Sibley MCBVI Pres. ; Charis Austin ;
>> casey354 at sbcglobal.net ; Donna Rose ; Michael Geno ; Elmer Cerano MPAS ;
>> TOM MASSEAU MPAS ; Jeanette Brown MI CAP ; Richard Bernstein Esq ; Jo
>> Anne Pilarski MCB, Chair ; Larry Posont ; lydia schuck ; John Scott MCB,
>> Commissioner ; Patrick Cannon MCB Director
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:44 AM
>> Subject: call for enforcement of ada
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> June 21, 2011
>>
>>
>>
>> Open Letter to Advocates in MCBVI and NFB MI
>>
>>
>>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>>
>>
>> All no by now the requirements of the ADA relative to signage
>> and the accessible meeting requirements of the ADA. Now there is a
>> special charge for the Michigan Commission for the Blind in these regards
>> that is self-evident yet, once again the only accessible signage in
>> Constitution Hall where MCB held its quarterly meeting on Friday last was
>> on restrooms and elevators. To make matters even worse the ill-named
>> Constitution Hall was built after the effected regulatory date of the
>> ADA, Title II (January 26, 1992.) I am shocked particularly at the
>> disregard for enforcing these requirements or even a peep about them from
>> the Michigan Council of the Blind and Visually Impaired especially in
>> light of its 2002 resolution (attached after my signature line) in this
>> regard. I am especially insulted by Michigan Protection and Advocacy
>> Services which has been derelict in enforcing the ADA in these regards
>> and routinely goes to meetings such as the aforementioned without a peep
>> and which ignores multiple complaints. There is not a single state
>> building with exception of state colleges in compliance. Not one.
>>
>>
>>
>> I urge all blind people to join together in multiple complaints
>> with appropriate agencies for immediate remedy. I urge our brothers and
>> sisters with MCBVI to put their money where their mouths are.
>>
>>
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Attached Resolution:
>>
>>
>>
>> Resolution 2002-04
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> WHEREAS, raised character and Braille signage has long been
>> required to be mounted on every permanent room of every public building
>> by the Americans With Disabilities Act access guidelines and
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> WHEREAS, such signage aids people who are blind and visually
>> impaired in independently accessing the programs, services, benefits, and
>> activities provided in these public buildings, and
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> WHEREAS, such signage represents the major structural element
>> afforded the blind in the ADA; and
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> WHEREAS, this requirement has been grossly overlooked in this
>> state, with many buildings having no accessible signage whatsoever, and
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> WHEREAS, many programs, policies and procedures are not easily
>> accessible to citizens who are blind in Michigan,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE Michigan Council of the Blind
>> and Visually Impaired in CONVENTION ASSEMBLED AT THE Clarion Hotel in
>> Lansing, Michigan that we urge the new Governor to make funds available
>> for barrier removal in buildings owned or operated by the state; and
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED: that the new Governor form a Taskforce
>> on Disability to assist each department of state government in
>> identifying and rapidly removing these barriers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Cc: NFB MI
>>
>> Cc: MCBVI
>>
>> Cc: MCB Board
>>
>> Cc: Michigan Protection and advocacy Services
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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