[nfbmi-talk] October 13, 2011 Minutes,
Larry D. Keeler
lkeeler at comcast.net
Tue Nov 1 00:54:54 UTC 2011
Not me! I know that sometimes people get out of control. I make up my own
mind about people and after meeting you at the June commission meeting I
think that personally you seem ok. Although I didn't really get a chance to
talk with you much. Maybe this weekend? Again, my thing is what people do
publically.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth" <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
To: "Diana Mohnke" <d_mohnke18 at yahoo.com>; "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing
List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] October 13, 2011 Minutes,
> Hello Diana,
>
> Thank you for submitting such a well thought out and clear message. I
> honestly do not know what I have done to continue receiving such vicious
> personal attacks against me when the only thing I have done is
> respectfully ask that these personal attacks against me, along with
> everyone else, to stop. And so now I ask, how many times must I ask that
> these vicious personal attacks against me and others stop before they
> actually stop?
>
> I understand Joe has the right to free speech under the Constitution of
> the United States. However, according to several lectures given by my
> political science professor, the Constitution of the United States also
> protects me against vicious slander as well.
>
> Now if no one wants to give me any credit or recognition for all the hard
> work I have done within this organization over the years, that is
> perfectly fine by me. However, it is simply too much for me to constantly
> dodge all of these bullets of confrontation and condemnation all of the
> time. So on that note, I can honestly say that these messages are
> definitely turning people away from this organization.
>
> Respectfully,
> Elizabeth
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Diana Mohnke" <d_mohnke18 at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 6:34 PM
> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: <David.Andrews at NFBnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] October 13, 2011 Minutes,
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I found the below message from Joe to be very rude and disrespectful. I
>> find it very disappointing that it has once again come to bashing
>> specific individuals on a very public listserv. I do not believe it
>> should happen and it should be dealt with in the proper manner.
>>
>> As members of the National Federation of the Blind we are to be
>> respectful of others ideas and opinions even when we disagree. It is
>> disappointing to note that people within our own organization feel it is
>> okay to negatively attack individuals. I would think that we should
>> spend our energies spent on helping each other instead of attacking one
>> another. It is hard enough that we are negatively stereotyped by sighted
>> individuals you would think that those of us who are blind would rather
>> fight the same battles instead of battling against one another.
>>
>> Joe, you should note that Mary Wurtzel made the motion, not Donna. There
>> was a discussion about the motion at which everyone was given an
>> opportunity to give their opinions. Then Larry called for a vote in
>> which only the board voted upon the motion.
>>
>> And I am wondering why you included all the Mohnke sisters in your
>> attack. Just to let you know we are three different individuals with our
>> own opinions, ideas, interests and talents and are not just one person
>> speaking for all three. So if you are talking about Elizabeth then just
>> say her name but do not include the Mohnke sisters when you are only
>> talking about one.
>>
>> You stated, “and I'll not tolerate any further and totally hypocritical
>> attacks upon my person”. Don’t you think that Elizabeth and Donna feel
>> the same way? That they will no longer tolerate the attacks you make
>> against them?
>>
>> I only hope that respect towards other individuals would occur in the
>> future. When we steer towards hateful and demeaning attacks we are not
>> helping anyone.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Diana
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: joe harcz Comcast <joeharcz at comcast.net>
>> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] October 13, 2011 Minutes,
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Thank you for these minutes as always.
>>
>> And I'd like to take [personal opportunity to thank one and all on my
>> personal behalf let alone on the behalf of others for which I've fought
>> and, continue to fight for period.
>>
>> However, being only human I do wish to know who voted against me, or
>> rather for those who singled me out for censorship.
>>
>> I don't ask this for any sort of retribution, but only because I,
>> personally have only so much resources.
>>
>> I simply cannot and will not work for those who attack me directly and in
>> official capacity. I hope that folks understand this. I am not so shallow
>> as I am vindictive or that I would otherwise retaliate against such
>> individuals for I'm not like that. But again I won't work or advocate or
>> expend any free energy for those who personally attacked me or again
>> subscribed for my censorship in stark violation of my given human and
>> civil and constitutional rights. Namely I won't work personally for
>> example on behalf of Donna even as I've done openly on this listand
>> others in the past though I'll continue to work for and on behalf of all
>> the blind and Donna would most assuredly benefit from that personally
>> along with others of course.
>>
>> Now, am I to understand from these minutes and subsequent discussions
>> that it was Donna Posant who initiated this personal attack and that it
>> was Elizabeth who aided and abetted it?
>>
>> Ironic as it all is and as frankly gutless as it all is we are all adults
>> here and if someone has a problem with me on or off the list he or she
>> can direct comments to me directly on this list or at my e-mail at:
>> joeharcz at comcast.net.
>>
>> I've pretty much refrained from open commentary on this list because we
>> do not need a "house divided".
>>
>> But, upon reflection and upon seeing this once again, and on the eve of
>> our state convention in which I've invested numerous hours, and shallow
>> resources to be continually slapped in the face by shallow individuals
>> who do not have the plain courage to confront me directly is, frankly
>> beyond the pale.
>>
>> Again, it is also hypocritical, counterproductive and hurts the body
>> politic more than it hurts me though I cannot state being human and
>> working for the benefit of all who are blind for years without one single
>> dime of pay this doesn't hurt my feelings.
>>
>> If Donna and Elizabeth can't figure out the difference between so-called
>> "personal attacks" upon a public official who bbilks more than one
>> hundred and twenty five thousand per year and all his perks and benefits
>> at the taxpayer's teet while screwing with the blind for his sighted
>> masters and for his own kicks like Pat Cannon and me, who doesn't get one
>> dime but rather gets peed upon by the likes of Donna and Elizabeth over
>> and over again I just don't know what is what? Can you and the Monke
>> sisters including Elizabeth figure this out donna; or the groos coardly
>> and hypocritical elements of it all that is? And if this all has to do
>> with Larry and not me personally and your personal relationship than that
>> makes matters worse in my mind for it defiles once again the goals and
>> aspirations of all blind folks over personal issues.
>>
>> Listen one and all there are performance standards for public officials.
>>
>> They are what they are in any democratic-republic. Like it or lump it! If
>> you, Donna, and you Elizabeth like a dictatorship then go to some other
>> country and don't let the freedom of this democracy hit you in the back
>> end on your way out!
>>
>> I am as serious as a heart attack about that statement.
>>
>> If either one of you don't like me personally it is ok, frankly right now
>> I don't like either of you for obvious reasons.
>>
>> Now, if on the other hand you wish to apologize either individually or
>> together for your direct, and personal and divisive attacks made in this
>> meeting I'm willing to be a human and forgive you for these affronts.
>>
>> Regardless, I am dedicated and will be diligent towards what I perceive
>> as advancements of all human beings with a special concern towards the
>> advancement of those who are blind whether or not, I like the people
>> particularly or not.
>>
>> I'm sorry I must amend the prior statement. I will now and continually
>> fight against the perfidy of two individuals from the public roles who
>> are blind . They are Patrick D. Cannon and Leemon Jones. And I fight
>> against them for their betrayal of the public trust in their official
>> capacity and their long standing perfidy against those who are blind
>> including both of you by the by, but certainly not exclusive of either of
>> you.
>>
>> Both of you have been hit by amonst other things the perversions and the
>> arbitrary and capricious and total violations of the Rehabilitation Act
>> spear headed by Cannon and Jones.
>>
>> Those are facts and they are indisputable facts in the public record.
>>
>> More importantly these facts, again born in the public record exemplify
>> acts by these public officials in violation of laws against all whom are
>> blind.
>>
>> It is now time to decide in my mind just whose side you, Donna Poseant
>> and you, Elizabeth Monke are on.
>>
>> You have every right to state up front, and again on this very list if
>> you have the temerity to do so any opposition to what I've said here.
>>
>> You have every right to state your opinion. You can do whatever you wish
>> as human beings and as even officers like Donna has done. This is your
>> innate and human and civil right endowed by our beloved United States
>> Constitution which you've spit upon and denigrated here in the public
>> record. I unlike you both won't take that right from either of you.
>>
>> But, don't again for one moment think you can get away with sneaky,
>> cowardly and insidious attacks upon my person, or engage openly in
>> actions against my human and civil rights as you did in the public albeit
>> behind my back at the time without comment or without a counter defense.
>>
>> Don't for one minute think this is not a cowardly attack upon my person
>> and against the public interest.
>>
>> You both made this beyond what it ever should have been.
>>
>> You both again have gone beyond the pale and have sold out to the devil
>> so-to-speak.
>>
>> I am not Jesus, and do not claim to be and will not "turn the other
>> cheek".
>>
>> This is stated for the public record. On the record. And I'll not
>> tolerate any further, and totally hypocritical attacks upon my person
>> and again against the body politic this ever again.
>>
>> Both of you and your cohorts are free to leave NFB MI or stay. Elizabeth
>> you've complained and not only here on list about this that and the other
>> thing, often as I've asserted, and in my opinion rightfully so, but then
>> bitten myself and others on the ass even after that affirmation, and then
>> you continue to state you are thinking about leaving this organization.
>> Well don't let me stand in your way and don't let the door hit you on the
>> backside on the way out either please.
>>
>> And don't give me either of you this paranoid "talking behind my back"
>> garbage. I do my bidding right here and in public and up close and
>> personal unlike, once again the cowardly types like yourselves or the
>> likes of worse, once again public officials like Pat Cannon and Leemon
>> Jones who are highly paid Uncle Toms and yes, that is a personal attack
>> verified by facts for they've sold us out for their "thirty pieces of
>> silver" over and over again.
>>
>> My girlfriend just so happens to be Jewish and there were those in her
>> extended family who were in concentration camps and there were those
>> unfortunates in those dire times who sold out their own, perhaps out of
>> utter desperation. They were called "Kapos" by the Nazis and "Hudenrats'
>> by their brethren.
>>
>> Regardless and in simple terms here folks are either a part of the
>> problem or they are part of the solution.
>>
>> Which do either and/or you wish to be?
>>
>>
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> f
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <trising at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBofMichigan List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:42 PM
>> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] October 13, 2011 Minutes,
>>
>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind of Michigan Board Meeting
>>> October 13, 2011 Minutes,
>>> Quorum Marcus Simmons, Larry Posont, Terri Wilcox, Dave Robinson, Mike
>>> Powell, Donna Posont, and Mary Wurtzel.
>>> Secretary's Report, Terri Wilcox. Donna Posont moved to adopt the
>>> Secretary's Report. Marcus Simmons seconded the motion. The Secretary's
>>> Report was approved.
>>> Treasurer's Report, Mary Wurtzel. There is a new youth account that
>>> facilitates the keeping of separate books for both the Youth and
>>> Affiliate accounts. The affiliate has around $1,500 minus a receipt for
>>> printing and mailing the flyer for State Convention plus the two phone
>>> bills.
>>> Introduction of participating Members.
>>> President's Report, Larry Posont. Larry Posont, and possibly others are
>>> meeting with a veteran who is blind who is coming to
>>> Convention. He has very young children. He has a custody battle because
>>> of his blindness.
>>> State Convention, Update. Mary Wurtzel is going to Kalamazoo next week
>>> to finalize rooms for Convention meetings. J.J. Meddaugh and Mike Powell
>>> are investigating incomplete registrations. Larry Posont and Brunhilde
>>> Merck-Adam have discussed the Parents Seminar. A rough draft of the
>>> final Agenda should be completed by the end of next week.
>>> Larry Posont represented the Commission Board at the American Council of
>>> the Blind Convention. Operators
>>> Meeting on Friday from 9:30 to 3:00 P.M. Lunch will be served on Friday
>>> for $12.00 Lunch tickets must be sold at Registration for
>>> around $12.00 or $14.00 for Saturday's lunch at the hotel. The Merchants
>>> Division has volunteered to operate the hospitality room. There may be a
>>> shuttle to another restaurant. The hotel is being difficult. There will
>>> be some fun Friday night from approximately 9:00 to 11:00. Chapters can
>>> sell fund raisers. The Ann Arbor Chapter will sell tickets for the gift
>>> card Raffle at 1 ticket for $3.00 and 2 tickets for $5.00. Kalamazoo may
>>> host Family Feud. Cider and doughnuts may be offered. Larry Posont will
>>> finalize youth activities with Melinda Latham on the Agenda. Leader Dog
>>> is attending the convention and speaking on the cane travel
>>> program, summer camps for kids, and the Global Positioning System
>>> Program. A National Student Representative will be at
>>> State Convention. Elizabeth Mohnke recommends that we have her speak on
>>> the Saturday Agenda.
>>> Send Out Flyers Update. 1,000 Flyers went out thanks to Fred and Mary
>>> Wurtzel plus Sheila Latham.
>>> Newsline Update. Larry Posont had a discussion with Pat Cannon and the
>>> National Office concerning Newsline. The department of Licensing
>>> Has the Commission Board Minutes. Larry Posont will meet with Steve
>>> Arwood if he does not hear by next week. Pat Cannon said that payments
>>> will come year by year rather than in a five year lump sum.
>>> Monitoring Report. The Commission says that corrections were sent to Rsa
>>> but they have not heard if the corrections were acceptable.
>>> New Business: Dave Robinson is looking at prices and possibilities about
>>> fund raising at National Convention. Smart is cutting twenty two percent
>>> of their routes. Smart is South Eastern Michigan Rapid Transit.
>>> There have been complaints concerning posts on the list serve. There is
>>> concern that these posts give our list a bad name and a bad reputation.
>>> A call was issued for volunteer moderators. No one who raised complaints
>>> was willing to moderate the list. Mike Powell and Marcus Simmons are on
>>> the list serve committee. Mary Wurtzel makes a motion to block Joe Harcz
>>> from the email list serve. Donna Posont seconded the motion. Several
>>> weighed in on this discussion. Thoughts spoken included, we should not
>>> block people because we do not like what they are saying. Both sides
>>> have freedom of speech. Marcus Simmons says good research is presented
>>> by Mr. Harcz and that we should take the bitter with the sweet.
>>> Elizabeth Mohnke says personal attacks should stop. The motion does not
>>> pass.
>>> Members at Large Chapter Luncheon at State Convention. The Members at
>>> Large Chapter will meet over lunch to hold elections and go over bylaws.
>>> Old Business: The Training Center may not be available for moving back
>>> in until the end of January.
>>> Adjourn at 9:49.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>
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