[nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
joe harcz Comcast
joeharcz at comcast.net
Mon Sep 26 19:51:37 UTC 2011
Again this is a "public forum" in case you missed it sir! In fact you damn
me for doing precisely what you call for in this very message.
Now, what is it you wish for?
should I ask openly why millions of funds have been squandered in legal
expenses that were not required but, rather perpetrated by bad actions of
public actors like Cannon acting recklessly and above the laws of this land
including the very laws that pays his paycheck? Should I state this openly
on this public forum? Oops I guess I just did so.
Should I state openly and on this public forum that MCB and Cannon have
openly and in documented fashion violated the collective and personal civil
rights of countless blind folks with their rather knowing and pernicious
violations of the ADA/504? Well, I guess i did that right here on this
public forum.
Should I state openly and publicly that Gwen McNeal a known civil rights
violator in her own right is publicly sitting on the Board of Trustees of
non-profit a she through the good offices of this state/federal entity is
contracting with in gross and pernicious conflict of the public's interests
here? Oops I guess I just said that and openly put that in a public forum.
And if the Michigan AtAttorney General or the or the Inspector General of
the United States Department of Education doesn't get it then that isn't my
problem, but rather a problem of public ethics and organizations out of any
control sir. Regardless I've put this out in the open and yoyu have the
mendacity for stating what you state here?
Now, let us look at Faith Meadows. She again is a nice person, but she also
is a public employee and she, not I made her comments for the public record
at issue.
This was not idle chit chat over the coffee table. This was not stuff
utterred in exasperation over the water cooler. These words were penned
during state, taxpayer's time mind you and made supposedly with some thought
behind them.
And it isn't reading between the lines in the slightest to see that these
public words are a direct attack upon the very people Ms. Meadows a public
employee is entrusted to and paid for engaging and for providing public
services.
I cannot help it that some like apparently Faith Meadows is so stupidly
engaging in assaults in the public domain against the public interest.
She did that all by her self. I simply retailed her public bovine scatology,
and more importantly her blatently illegal and discrimanatory public
behavior. for these words alone and let alone actions behind them Faith
should be rightfully fired as should any public employeee who acts in such
a reckless and documented and factual discriminatory manner. One need not
even read between the lines here. It is all in her own words.
And for Cannon to back this stuff up goes to your fundamental point...
...OOops I guess this stuff is right out in the open and right on this very
list....
thanks for bringing it all up Fred...
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "fred olver" <goodfolks at charter.net>
To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
> You can call it what you want, Joe, but if you haven't the guts to back up
> what you say by putting it in a public forum where it could be acted upon
> then the facts speak for themselves.
>
> Fred Olver
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>
>
>> This is blaming the victims of perfidy for the very perfidy documented
>> over and over again Msir.
>>
>> This isn't any longer a matter of simple opinion.
>>
>>
>> But you now strike out at the likes of me for "whistle blowing" and then
>> blame me for the fact that corrupted powers are still in power?
>>
>> How does this make even one iota of sense, even common sense?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "fred olver" <goodfolks at charter.net>
>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 9:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>
>>
>>> Joe, I will not comment on Faith Meadows, however if your overall
>>> dispute is with the leadership of MCB, that being Pat Cannon and you
>>> believe and can substantiate his improprieties as director of MCB then
>>> you as a citizen have an obligation to seek his removal as director. If
>>> you do not then the responsibility for his remaining in office falls on
>>> your head for ignoring the illegalities which he as director has
>>> perpetrated on the citizens of Michigan who are blind. Your words are
>>> like arrows, to me. You can, at will seem to use them for good or you
>>> can choose to use them for evil, at best, though, at this point I'm
>>> beginning to think they are just words and I haven't seen anything to
>>> point up the fact that you think Pat Cannon is a bad director. I hear
>>> lots of words and some small actions to get the MCB to provide you with
>>> specific materials, but I don't see you causing or ensighting change in
>>> policy. Again, I would state, if you think Mr. Cannon is not good for
>>> the commission than find the ammunition to remove him from office. This
>>> talk about people wetting on the heads of others etc. becomes very old
>>> after a while. In other words, Joe, and I regret to feel a need to say
>>> this, put your money where your mouth is. Get him out, or take the
>>> necessary steps to rid the commission of him and do it well, so no one
>>> has any cause for regret. If his work, ethics, decisions are so bad, and
>>> you can prove that he has violated the law and the edicts put forth with
>>> regard to rehabilitation of blind folks by Congress then show us, and
>>> everyone else where he has gone wrong.
>>>
>>> Use your words for the good of one and all, not to create devisiveness
>>> and anger. Nothing you say on this list is going to make a difference to
>>> Pat Cannon or anyone else who works for MCB, however if you put your
>>> words to use in a public forum and create a series of debating points
>>> and an avenue for change then you have done your best. I dare you.
>>>
>>> Fred Olver
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 7:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Fred,
>>>>
>>>> While I substantially agree I'm compelled to point out that Faith acted
>>>> publicly and in her public capacity.
>>>>
>>>> She did after all pen official board correspondence. If these were
>>>> simple words between a debating society or even amongst friendly
>>>> comrades over an adult beverage or two it wouldn't amount to much and,
>>>> I'd agree with you. But, that isn't the case here.
>>>>
>>>> This said, I've got no other axe to grind with Faith per se. And in
>>>> fact have ironically stood for her in the past.
>>>>
>>>> The real issue as you and I and all know is that Pat Cannon fueled this
>>>> dog fight for his own Machiavellian purposes.
>>>>
>>>> That is the core to his "patronage" game.
>>>>
>>>> It is all about jobs after all. And those jobs aren't based upon merit,
>>>> but rather, allegiance and fealty to a petty dictator.
>>>>
>>>> The evil of it all is that our times in general are as desperate to a
>>>> degree as they've ever been for we in America are indeed in a Great
>>>> Recession. times are tough for anyone out there especially in Michigan
>>>> and times certainly are tougher for people with any disability let
>>>> alone those who are blind.
>>>>
>>>> Except for the fact that many have the rightful social safety net of
>>>> social security the bulk of us would be living on some localized public
>>>> assistance or begging literally in the streets of America. Those are
>>>> indeed factual statements.
>>>>
>>>> This is why the words of this professional, paid for at again the
>>>> public teet is so hypocritical; so ironic; and indeed, so dangerous.
>>>>
>>>> The fact that Faith is blind, and I think generally competent makes
>>>> this all the more insidious.
>>>>
>>>> This is an extreme moral issue in my mind.
>>>>
>>>> It is not unlike the fact that many Jews in Nazi Germany sold out their
>>>> brethren to save their own skins during those troubled times.
>>>>
>>>> I understand why those folks did what they did. But we must call gross
>>>> immorality even under duress what it is.
>>>>
>>>> And, of course as in that moral illustration we must go to the root
>>>> cause of it all.
>>>>
>>>> I'm pretty well convinced that under better leadership, for example
>>>> that Faith might well be a positive force for good and positive change.
>>>> I won't dispute that for a moment.
>>>>
>>>> But, that supports my fundamental premise pointing out the elephant in
>>>> the room. For until Dictator Cannon is gone then nothing will change
>>>> positively for the blind of Michigan. And, btw things are going to be
>>>> tough enough with the way things are in the over all economy.
>>>>
>>>> In these troubled times the activities of publicofficials or those
>>>> acting in public capacity that are corrupted give fodder to those who
>>>> wish to eliminate programs altogether.
>>>>
>>>> That, Fred is why the actions of Faith are so perfidious.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, while I'm sensitive again to a degree I'm not going to weep
>>>> and moan for someone making $60,000 plus while the bulk of the blind
>>>> are unemployed. I certainly won't weep for such an individual when she
>>>> denigrates en masse those very people she is charged and paid for to
>>>> serve. She publicly urinated upon the heads of all blind people
>>>> regardless as to race, color, creed, or affiliation. That is
>>>> intolerable. It is indeed class treason in her own chosen and, again
>>>> public words.
>>>>
>>>> It is because the times are so desperate and that moral issues are so
>>>> profound in desperate times that this issue is so important..
>>>>
>>>> And, yes, Faith made a public policy issue very personal to all of us
>>>> in word, fact, and deed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Fred wurtzel" <f.wurtzel at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "'NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List'" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 10:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a little reluctant to get into this thread. joe,, though I
>>>>> disagree
>>>>> with Faith regarding her comments, I feel it is just what our enemies
>>>>> want,
>>>>> that is, to fight with each other and sew emnity among us when we need
>>>>> to
>>>>> focus on the real issues of lack of direction and leadership from top
>>>>> MCB
>>>>> management. It appears that Faith is falling into this same trap.
>>>>> When
>>>>> clients are called back, have their cases opened in a timely manner,
>>>>> don't
>>>>> show up in Kalamazoo at the Center without having ever met a MCB
>>>>> client,
>>>>> blind people are not fired and bullied and intimidated for their
>>>>> desire to
>>>>> make things better and we have 250-300 placements on a regular basis,
>>>>> then
>>>>> we will know that things are improving at MCB. No matter what anyone
>>>>> says
>>>>> about our motives, these are facts and cannot be denied. It cannot be
>>>>> denied who is the top manager and who is in a position to change these
>>>>> dismal facts. We need not beat up on one another or compare who is
>>>>> more
>>>>> trampled on when, in fact, when 1 blind person is trampled on, all of
>>>>> us are
>>>>> trampled on, even those who feel privileged and somehow above the
>>>>> fray.
>>>>> Faith has a record to stand on and we all do to. None of us need feel
>>>>> superior or better because some of us have been blessed with
>>>>> opportunity
>>>>> while others have been held back. Except for the Grace of God, there
>>>>> go I.
>>>>>
>>>>> warmest Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Fred
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On Behalf Of joe harcz Comcast
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 7:37 PM
>>>>> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>
>>>>> Meadows isn't living poor. Her salary and credentials are a part of
>>>>> the
>>>>> public record as again is her nominal code of ethics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Listen one and all I've been easy on Faith as I've been on many
>>>>> others. But
>>>>> this is corructed bullshit in a word.
>>>>>
>>>>> This garbage is again beyond her code of ethics ethicllly speaking and
>>>>> her
>>>>> own given premise in the field.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, yes when people make sixty thousand per year plus at the public
>>>>> teet
>>>>> then they must be held accountable to their own proprofessionaland
>>>>> other
>>>>> standards for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> I used to feel a bit sorry for the likes of Faith Meadows. I don't at
>>>>> all
>>>>> nowadays for she is a traitor and a direct hypocrite as to her words
>>>>> and
>>>>> actions as if she would ever have a job in the private sector?
>>>>>
>>>>> I ddidn't wish for this to devolve into a blind upon blind campaign,
>>>>> but
>>>>> dangnit it has and I didn't shoot the first shot across the bow.
>>>>>
>>>>> This professional, so-called counselior who makes more than sixty
>>>>> thousand
>>>>> per year at the public teet has the unmitigated temerity to slander an
>>>>> entire clas for its so-called lack of responsability whilst she and
>>>>> the
>>>>> entire agency in documented fashion has sucked not only at our very
>>>>> blood,
>>>>> but also violated the very laws that give this crank her paycheck?
>>>>>
>>>>> Listen, one and all she slanderrred and attacked me personally in her
>>>>> innuendo and conjecture while again she suck up federal/state taxpayer
>>>>> dollars. Now, I'll remin all I'm not a hypocrite. I am decidedly left
>>>>> of
>>>>> center. Yet for all of my own career, with the exception of three
>>>>> years in
>>>>> the mid-seventies wilst working for the Genesesse count ISD as a
>>>>> para-aide
>>>>> at below union wages until I founded a union in fact I've always
>>>>> worked for
>>>>> the private sector.
>>>>>
>>>>> How ironic is that eh?
>>>>>
>>>>> I will no longer work for sellouts, incompetents and discriminatory
>>>>> actors.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just won't.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:24 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Christy, What I'm mostly responding to is that this person whom I
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> well, can attack us and think we are just complaining to do so. I
>>>>>> got
>>>>>> involved with the NFB because I'm job hunting and am not getting
>>>>>> anywhere!
>>>>>
>>>>>> This isn't the first time that MS. Meadows has let loose like this.
>>>>>> She
>>>>>> certainly has a right to her oppinion but sence she works in the
>>>>>> rehab
>>>>>> field she should be supporting us in our efforts. Beeing a person
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> would LOVE!!! to have a job and is doing everything possible to
>>>>>> obtain
>>>>>> that goal. Well, I guess I am getting tired of being stereotyped as
>>>>>> someone who would rather live of the government than contribute to
>>>>>> it!
>>>>>> MS. Meadows also claims or was a member of our organization as well.
>>>>>> Finally, she has become one of those folks who are doing alright and
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> least seem to have most of what we want. This is a good thin unless
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> do what she has done and judge those of us who are trying and getting
>>>>>> nowhere! I, like Mr. Harcz, do believe that They are doing the best
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> can down in Kalamazoo but some folks are not doing the jobs they have
>>>>>> well
>>>>>
>>>>>> and in fact are not giving deserving blind folks as good a service as
>>>>>> they
>>>>>
>>>>>> can. Most of the counsellors are well intentioned. But training of
>>>>>> counsellors and clients does need to improve! I'm very happy that
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> don't really need the services but some folks do and that's what we
>>>>>> need
>>>>>> to improve!
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: <christywitte at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 5:57 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can definitely see why some people are frustrated and even
>>>>>>> angry.
>>>>>>> However, last time I checked, our job is not to judge others our
>>>>>>> spout
>>>>>>> off. If people could use that energy they feel to accomplish a goal,
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>
>>>>>>> getting a job it would be great. I'm not responding specifically to
>>>>>>> anyone on the list. I know that sometimes there are misconceptions
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> the commission and what it does and what it does not do. Try to turn
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>
>>>>>>> tragedies to triumphs. Also, blindness is just one adjective to
>>>>>>> describe
>>>>>>> us; beyond that, we come from all walks of life and so we have many
>>>>>>> experiences and abilities. Sometimes, we have to take things in our
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> hands. If we do not believe in our own abilities, how do we expect
>>>>>>> others
>>>>>
>>>>>>> to believe in our abilities. We all must forge ahead to achieve
>>>>>>> success;
>>>>>>> means something to everybody. Some of us are very young or very old,
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> have other disabilities, difficult lives, varying levels of skills.
>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>> are all given a different lot in life but we need to work within our
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> parameters to get things done. The commission can be lacking, this
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> true, but blaming an organization, which is composed of many people,
>>>>>>> doesn't get us a paycheck or whatever we feel we want and need
>>>>>>> individually and as a group. We must forge together and stand
>>>>>>> together to
>>>>>
>>>>>>> win our battles. By the way, I've never gotten assistance from
>>>>>>> anybody. I
>>>>>
>>>>>>> think about what I would do in their shoes; I also consider how much
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> would want to help or assist someone who has attacked me. I am not
>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>
>>>>>>> to offend others nor am I condoning people who don't get the job
>>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>> I've also observed that many people in my generation may not fully
>>>>>>> comprehend their own role in finding employment or understand what
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> job is going to involve. You have ask yourself: do I have the skills
>>>>>>> necessary for this job and if I want this job, or one similar to it,
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> am I going to personally acquire the skills that are lacking. Many
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> people in my age group are unemployed, and many of those aren't
>>>>>>> hitting
>>>>>>> the pavement every day looking for enjoyable employment. I'm not
>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>> about the reasons. They may feel overwhelmed by the process; they
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> feel like they are not equipped with the tools necessary to perform
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> job. It is kind of like climbing a mountain. You have to locate and
>>>>>>> climb
>>>>>
>>>>>>> to the higher level.
>>>>>>> Sorry about the length.
>>>>>>> Christy
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:09 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, I'm concerned about her and others who think our commission
>>>>>>>> board
>>>>>>>> is to aggressive! Does this mean it didn't do much before? I
>>>>>>>> thaught
>>>>>>>> our board was supposed to actually do something! Just being the
>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>> man in the street, and correct me if I'm wrong at least 2 of the
>>>>>>>> commissioners had very good jobs. I don't really know Lydia but if
>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>> doesn't have one she would deffinetly have experience enough for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> board. Both of the commissioners who quit had good jobs but
>>>>>>>> decided to
>>>>>>>> quit anyway because they were out numbered and in my humble
>>>>>>>> oppinion
>>>>>>>> didn't really have enough interest in making things better for the
>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> population as a whole. It seems to me that when some blind folks
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> lucky and get good jobs they forget that most of us are still
>>>>>>>> struggling
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for the security and respect they think they have earned! I am not
>>>>>>>> slamming everyone that has gotten jobs iether but people like Faith
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Donna Rose must feel secure in ther jobs so they find us especially
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> NFB tiresome because we still have to scratch and claw for every
>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>> rite we gett! If joblessness and respect were not issues then we
>>>>>>>> wouldn't have to be aggressive about themm! But we should always
>>>>>>>> insist
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> on fair play! At least the current board wants to do things right
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> abov board!
>>>>>>>> Intelligence is always claimed but rarely proven!
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/christywitte%40sbcgl
>>>>> obal.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
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>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.ne
>>>>> t
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> et
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>> net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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