[nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?

[J.J. Meddaugh]

Thanks Christine and all of you who have provided thoughtful dialog on 
this question. This is exactly the type of discussion I love to see on 
this list.
One additional piece of info that many of the audible pedestrian signals 
offer now is the countdown timer, letting you know how much time you 
have to cross. While this is not a necessary piece of information, it is 
available to sighted travelers and if there is a way to convey this to a 
blind person, then I think it should be strongly considered.
The ones here in Kalamazoo also include an arrow pointing in the 
direction of the crosswalk, which is an additional tool for lining up.

While there is no substitute for  proper training, I would like to have 
the best information available to me when crossing a street. While it's 
possible to learn a traffic pattern for a complex intersection, consider 
someone from out of town. I'm finding myself traveling to new cities on 
business and doing a lot of walking. I don't necessarily have time to 
spend 10 minutes at each intersection to discern the traffic pattern, etc.
Some street corners have buttons to press to stop the traffic so you can 
cross. Without a good way to locate these buttons, this could become 
difficult for a blind person both finding the button and then knowing 
when traffic is stoppped (think late nights when there isn't as much 
traffic on a major street). Sure, I can and would listen for the 
traffic, but with a speed limit of 50 or more, a car could be coming 
from a ways away rather quickly.

The point about what is a complex intersection is quite valid and is 
something I'll address, along with 3-way crossings and roundabouts.


The starting point for this conversation on Twitter was the MDOT 
response that they'll put in an audible pedestrian signal if a blind 
person was in the area and requested it. I felt this policy was a bit 
misguided and wanted to open up a discussion about possible better 
solutions.
Perhaps the outcome from the meeting would be an open forum or 
opportunities  for consumers and others to talk about what would benefit 
us the most.

There's a lot more to say here, but I'll post more after the meeting.
Thanks again.

Best regards,
J.J.

On 8/23/2013 11:26 PM, Christine Boone wrote:
> This message is from Doug Boone with some additions from me:
>
> For starters we must ask ourselves: How do you define a complex intersection? Doug and I have both worked with folks who have received blindness skill training that they believe is excellent-- most people really love their travel teacher, because no matter how far he or she has taken them toward independent travel, they enjoy more freedom after training than they did before:
>
> Some of these good folks have come to us requesting assistance with intersections that they define as extremely complex-- and we have discovered that in many cases the intersections are actually simple to moderate crossings.
>
> That said however, both of us have encountered some truly odd intersections that would benefit from accessible pedestrian signals.  This is often the case when there is an excessive amount of ambient noise in the surrounding environment, or when the intersection has 3 or more streets converging- especially when 1 or more of the streets have only intermittent traffic. When traffic is heavy and consistent, even really complex, multi-street intersections can be successfully navegated without accessible pedestrian signals.
>
> But no matter how we define a complex intersection, and no matter how well an individual has trained in blindness travel skills, the accessible pedestrian signal gives only one part of the equation: when the light changes from green to red, and whether the walk sign is lighted.  The signal does not give any indication of what traffic is doing, and whether or not drivers are obeying the law. Indeed audible pedestrian signals can create a sense of complacency that lowers the blind persons attention level so that they are less aware of traffic itself.
>
> One positive thing that has happened in recent years is that the noise produced by the signals themselves has been considerably reduced. The older louder signals actually created a hazard because they were noisy enough to mask the sound of traffic almost entirely.
>
> So those are our thoughts. It will be good for J.J. to meet with the MDOT people and to discuss these things...but the ultimate fix is a quality rehabilitation agency that offers consistent, superior training to its customers and can consult effectively with MDOT on when and where accessible signals should be installed.  An agency that is run and managed by individuals who are not acquainted with the practices and/or the profession of vocational rehabilitation will not have the ability to provide anything in the way of meaningful partnership or consultation on matters concerning individuals who are blind.
>
>   
>
> Boone Christine Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 23, 2013, at 11:33 AM, "J.J. Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>
>> Through talking to some people on Twitter, I've got a meeting set up with some MDOT people about accessible pedestrian signals. Their policy is that they'll install one if blind pedestrians regularly use that intersection.
>> I'm going to talk about the need for audible signals at complex intersections where traffic patterns aren't easily discernable but was curious as to your opinions on the matter. I know NFB has shifted opinion over time on the issue.
>> Just to clarify, I'm not claiming to represent NFB of Michigan for this meeting,.
>> Thanks much.
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Best regards,
>> J.J.
>>
>>
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