[nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?

Mon Aug 26 00:56:15 UTC 2013

Hi,

Maybe Larry could invite MDOT to our convention.  They have come before to
discuss busses.

Warm Regards,

Fred

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbmi-talk [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J.J.
Meddaugh
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 8:41 PM
To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?

Thanks Christine and all of you who have provided thoughtful dialog on this
question. This is exactly the type of discussion I love to see on this list.
One additional piece of info that many of the audible pedestrian signals
offer now is the countdown timer, letting you know how much time you have to
cross. While this is not a necessary piece of information, it is available
to sighted travelers and if there is a way to convey this to a blind person,
then I think it should be strongly considered.
The ones here in Kalamazoo also include an arrow pointing in the direction
of the crosswalk, which is an additional tool for lining up.

While there is no substitute for  proper training, I would like to have the
best information available to me when crossing a street. While it's possible
to learn a traffic pattern for a complex intersection, consider someone from
out of town. I'm finding myself traveling to new cities on business and
doing a lot of walking. I don't necessarily have time to spend 10 minutes at
each intersection to discern the traffic pattern, etc.
Some street corners have buttons to press to stop the traffic so you can
cross. Without a good way to locate these buttons, this could become
difficult for a blind person both finding the button and then knowing when
traffic is stoppped (think late nights when there isn't as much traffic on a
major street). Sure, I can and would listen for the traffic, but with a
speed limit of 50 or more, a car could be coming from a ways away rather
quickly.

The point about what is a complex intersection is quite valid and is
something I'll address, along with 3-way crossings and roundabouts.

The starting point for this conversation on Twitter was the MDOT 
response that they'll put in an audible pedestrian signal if a blind 
person was in the area and requested it. I felt this policy was a bit 
misguided and wanted to open up a discussion about possible better 
solutions.
Perhaps the outcome from the meeting would be an open forum or 
opportunities  for consumers and others to talk about what would benefit 
us the most.

There's a lot more to say here, but I'll post more after the meeting.
Thanks again.

Best regards,
J.J.

On 8/23/2013 11:26 PM, Christine Boone wrote:
> This message is from Doug Boone with some additions from me:
>
> For starters we must ask ourselves: How do you define a complex
intersection? Doug and I have both worked with folks who have received
blindness skill training that they believe is excellent-- most people really
love their travel teacher, because no matter how far he or she has taken
them toward independent travel, they enjoy more freedom after training than
they did before:
>
> Some of these good folks have come to us requesting assistance with
intersections that they define as extremely complex-- and we have discovered
that in many cases the intersections are actually simple to moderate
crossings.
>
> That said however, both of us have encountered some truly odd
intersections that would benefit from accessible pedestrian signals.  This
is often the case when there is an excessive amount of ambient noise in the
surrounding environment, or when the intersection has 3 or more streets
converging- especially when 1 or more of the streets have only intermittent
traffic. When traffic is heavy and consistent, even really complex,
multi-street intersections can be successfully navegated without accessible
pedestrian signals.
>
> But no matter how we define a complex intersection, and no matter how well
an individual has trained in blindness travel skills, the accessible
pedestrian signal gives only one part of the equation: when the light
changes from green to red, and whether the walk sign is lighted.  The signal
does not give any indication of what traffic is doing, and whether or not
drivers are obeying the law. Indeed audible pedestrian signals can create a
sense of complacency that lowers the blind persons attention level so that
they are less aware of traffic itself.
>
> One positive thing that has happened in recent years is that the noise
produced by the signals themselves has been considerably reduced. The older
louder signals actually created a hazard because they were noisy enough to
mask the sound of traffic almost entirely.
>
> So those are our thoughts. It will be good for J.J. to meet with the MDOT
people and to discuss these things...but the ultimate fix is a quality
rehabilitation agency that offers consistent, superior training to its
customers and can consult effectively with MDOT on when and where accessible
signals should be installed.  An agency that is run and managed by
individuals who are not acquainted with the practices and/or the profession
of vocational rehabilitation will not have the ability to provide anything
in the way of meaningful partnership or consultation on matters concerning
individuals who are blind.
>
>   
>
> Boone Christine Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 23, 2013, at 11:33 AM, "J.J. Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>
>> Through talking to some people on Twitter, I've got a meeting set up with
some MDOT people about accessible pedestrian signals. Their policy is that
they'll install one if blind pedestrians regularly use that intersection.
>> I'm going to talk about the need for audible signals at complex
intersections where traffic patterns aren't easily discernable but was
curious as to your opinions on the matter. I know NFB has shifted opinion
over time on the issue.
>> Just to clarify, I'm not claiming to represent NFB of Michigan for this
meeting,.
>> Thanks much.
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Best regards,
>> J.J.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
>> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nfbmi-talk:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/christineboone2%40gm
ail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nfbmi-talk mailing list
> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nfbmi-talk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com

_______________________________________________
nfbmi-talk mailing list
nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nfbmi-talk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/f.wurtzel%40att.net