[nfbmi-talk] Hortons spin, Zimmer style

Mon Sep 16 18:40:57 UTC 2013

Hi Joe,

I first want to say how laudible your voice is with regard to the law and
civil rights of all persons with disabilities, and secondly, I wish to say
that I do not see a contribution or benefit to your multiple attacks on
other persons within the cause.  We  all are committed to the same outcomes,
and we all, without exception, at times have said and done things that we
later, upon reflection,  found to be unwise and perhaps regretted saying or
doing, as a normal part of the human experience.  The past misjudgements
cannot be erased, and we each can only commit and redouble our efforts as
individuals, to do better in the future, not repeating our misjudgements of
the past.  If we all simply speak to the causes and propose workable
solutions to the many challenges and thretsto the advances we have made over
the years, then, in my opinion, we are all on the same and right path.  It
seems to me that our common enemy is the ongoing ignorance about blindness,
by the uninformed people, whether the public, the politicians and public
administrators, sighted, legally blind, and blind alike, whom are in need of
education about our reality, that blindness is only an inconvenience, and
when we are given and take the opportunity to adapt to the reality of such
an inconvenience, just like any inconvenience we all encounter as part of
the human experience daily throughout life. 

Like a white cane, civil rights laws are simply a tool to assist us in
achieving our opportunity outcome that any tool provides to assist in
achieving any goal in life.  The civil rights laws and regulations are
simply only one of many means to an end--equal opportunity and access as a
tool for achieving our common goal of independence, self-sufficiency, a
contributor to society as a taxpayer, and fulfillment of our unique
potential and dreams in all areas of life.  This perspective in no way
downplays or dismisses the importance of the civil rights and employment
laws and regulations as tools available to us to achieve our ultimate
desired outcomes described above.  Rather, this perspective emphasizes that
the true and most valuable tools available to us is education and speaking
as one voice in our philosophy and desired outcomes, and not the presence or
absence of the tools at our disposal to achieve our desired outcomes.
Remember, the tools at our disposal, such as the laws and regulations can
and may be changed, and may in fact be changed to no longer be an effective
tool for our use, depending on whom the powers-to-be are at any point in
time, but our philosophy and tireless drive shall not change, and it is
these constant factors that will win any battle in which we are engaged as
the NFB. 

Therefore Joe and everyone, I strongly suggest we refrainfrom personal
evaluation and attacks that only serve to distract from the real issues and
our basic cause.  Let's discuss the present and the future, for they are the
only point in time in which we can have a positive impact on the condition
and lives of all blind persons collectively.

s

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbmi-talk [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of joe
harcz Comcast
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 9:59 PM
To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Hortons spin, Zimmer style

Oh, you never thought of civil rights? Or you never thought of following and

abiding by the rule of law? I just don't get here Fred what in the heck you 
never toutht about here.

People who are blind and people within the BEP program were bleeding to 
death under your administration and further into this century.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Wurtzel" <f.wurtzel at att.net>
To: "'NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List'" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Hortons spin, Zimmer style

> Oh, I never thought of that.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbmi-talk [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of joe
> harcz Comcast
> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 8:28 PM
> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Hortons spin, Zimmer style
>
> The fact sheat is written in to law both in the promulgated rules, and 
> more
> Certaintly in the statute and regs of the Rehab Act ad Randolph Shepard 
> Act,
> along with of course Public Act 260. How many violations of law and equity
> might we suffer without remedy?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred Wurtzel" <f.wurtzel at att.net>
> To: "'Joe Sontag'" <suncat0 at gmail.com>; "'NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing
> List'" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 4:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Hortons spin, Zimmer style
>
>
>> Hi,  This is the basis of a very good fact sheet.
>>
>> Warm Regards,
>>
>> Fred
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbmi-talk [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Joe Sontag
>> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 2:51 PM
>> To: Marcus Simmons; NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Hortons spin, Zimmer style
>>
>> He said that all of the concern was based on "misinformation," that
>> Tim Hortons was not going into the State Capitol and that MSU ice
>> cream would be available at the Capitol and Anderson Buildings.
>>
>> Never mind that the Capitol will be a satellite of the Anderson, where
>> the real Timmy's going in, just across the street from the Capitol,
>> with a level
>> 17 and 2 level 12 employees and ten student assistants to run it all.
>> Never
>> mind that the Lesislature is not exempt from the food service priority
>> established under PA260 of 1978 as amended.  Never mind that many of
>> those who work in the Anderson House Office Building now believe that
>> a blind person is not capable of or willing to take on a facility like
>> the Anderson or that the very Agency that is supposed to be with and
>> behind us is shamelessly selling blind people down the river.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marcus Simmons" <president at map-n.org>
>> To: "Joe Sontag" <suncat0 at gmail.com>; "NFB of Michigan Internet
>> Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 12:37
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Hortons spin, Zimmer style
>>
>>
>>> What did they say? Thru all of the laughing and joking around, I
>>> could not follow.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joe Sontag" <suncat0 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBMI List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 11:40 AM
>>> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] Hortons spin, Zimmer style
>>>
>>>
>>>> Here's what Mike Zimmer said to SILC last Friday about the mystery
>>>> franchise.
>>>>
>>>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22266576/ZimmerSILC09132013.mp3
>>>>
>>>> When will they learn that some of us were once children and have
>>>> moved well beyond childhood?
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
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