[nfbmi-talk] all notified of obligations years ago

Terry D. Eagle terrydeagle at yahoo.com
Mon Jan 27 20:48:59 UTC 2014

The most sad and frustrating part is that violations are made by those who are blind or allegedly blind, are state officials, and possess the knowledge, position, authority and power to take appropriate action, make a difference, and being about enforcement of accessibility provisions of law, but refuse to do so, primarily because those blind persons have been bought off to remain silent and not act in compliance with the law.  And the most corrupt among the blind and disabled officials have a law degree allegedly, and possess a license to practice law as an attorney.

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbmi-talk [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of joe harcz Comcast
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:12 AM
To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nfbmi-talk] all notified of obligations years ago

All parties in this state including DHS and the Former Commission for the Blind were notified of obligations to effectively communicate with the blind of Michigan years ago. Yet, the violations persist in documented and escalating manners against my person and the class to this day.

This goes not only to deliberate indifference to known laws, but shows a pattern and practice of willful discrimination that over time and given the prevelence of incidents (again documented) must be considerred intentional and malicious violations of ccivil rights by state actors.

Joe Harcz

This was from April 10, 2002


And it was copied to Patrick Cannon and the MCB 2020 list serve among others. Sure looks like a notice of obligations related to both alternate formats and signage (and notice the reference to the Flint State Office Building which is still mostly non-compliant). When will this stuff end?


Joe Harcz

April 14, 2010


Disability grapevine archive of ada fia request with accessible format and signage ref

DisabilityGrapeVine : Message: Request for ADA, Title II Self Evaluation

List of 3 items

Create Account

Sign In


list end

Upgrade to Safer IE8

List of 2 items



list end

List of 4 items

My Yahoo!




list end

Yahoo! Groups



Web Search


DisabilityGrapeVine · Disability Grapevine’ Online Newspaper

Search for other groups...



List of 3 items

• Home

• Messages

• Attachments

list end

List of 5 items

• Members Only

• Photos

• Polls

• Promote

• Groups Labs (Beta)

list end

? Already a member?

Sign in to Yahoo!


Yahoo! Groups Tips


Did you know...

Want your group to be featured on the Yahoo! Groups website?

Add a group photo to Flickr.

Best of Y! Groups



Check them out and nominate your group.


Click here

for the latest updates on Groups Message search




Messages Help


Message #






Request for ADA, Title II Self Evaluation


Topic List

< Prev Topic  |

Next Topic >



< Prev Message  |  Next Message >


The Disability Grapevine Online Newspaper: Issue # 5 -Wednesday Year 3


****The Number One Daily Newspaper for People with Disabilities****


Please do not respond to this posting. To send Articles, Letters to the

Editor, or Classifieds, contact us at

DGVEditor at ....

Just Ask Joe

Questions, email Joe at

justaskjoe at ...


Title: Request for ADA, Title II Self Evaluation, And Effective

Communications Policy


Author: James Newsom




Paul Joseph Harcz, Jr.

1365 E. Mt. Morris Rd.

Mt. Morris, MI 48458



michiganadapt at ...



Re: Request for ADA, Title II Self Evaluation, And Effective Communications



James Newsom

Family Independence Agency

ADA Coordinator

235 South Grand Ave.

Suite 1412

Lansing, MI 48909


newsomj at ...

Also: Ms. Thiamm


hall-thiamm at ...


Dear Mr. Newsom and Ms. Thiamm,


As I discussed over the telephone today with Ms. Thiamm I am writing you to

request in accessible format The Family Independence Agency and its

subdivision's ADA, Title II Self Evaluation that was required to be conducted

by January 26, 1993 by all state and local governmental entities (28.CFR, 35

(Title II), II-8.2000 Self-evaluation). It should be noted that

implementation of an effective communications policy was required on the date

implementing the ADA; title II regulations which was January 26, 1992.

I am most concerned about your agency's means, methods and procedures for

making visually delivered information such as forms, applications, brochures,

program notices, consumer records available in accessible formats, a timely

manner and based upon "primary consideration" to the blind and visually

impaired as the regulations require (28.CFR, 35 (Title II), Subpart e,



You might also reference the following for general regulatory requirements:


"28 C.F.R., 35.160 General. (a) A public entity shall take appropriate steps

to ensure that communications with applicants, participants, and members of

The public with disabilities are as effective as communications with others.


The self-evaluation must include a complete assessment of policies,

procedures, and resources that will ensure that people with disabilities are

not unlawfully

excluded, segregated, or restricted in any way as the result of communication



Precisely I would like to know the following:


*What documents and other delivery systems such as web sites does the agency


*What methods are used to make them accessible on an affirmative basis? To



a. Is your web site fully accessible to users of screen reading technology

or other adaptive devices?

b. are the documents themselves accessible?


*What types of forms and other printed information are made accessible prior

to request in the following formats?


-large print


-computer diskette and/or e-mail attachments

-audio tape

-agency use of qualified readers


*Also would you list the means, methods and protocols for remitting the above

information that is not affirmatively produced in a timely manner?


It should be noted that case law such as Tyler v. City of Manhattan (857 F.

Supp. 800 (D. Kan.1994) (

requires that public entities must act affirmatively in these regards (1).


I have also been informed that many of your offices do not have raised

character and Braille signage on every permanent room including room numbers

as the Americans with Disabilities Act Access Guidelines (attached-2)

require. In fact I've had occasion as a client to visit the state building in

Flint, which your agency has several offices and raised character and Braille

signage except on elevators and rest rooms is conspicuously absent.


For additional resources, citations and self-evaluation guides please feel

free to use my web site: www. Education-rights.org. You may link to the U.S.

Dept. of Justice's web site through my site as well and access statute,

regulations and "action guides".


As a blind person I am of course requesting that any correspondences or the

remission of requested information be remitted in accessible format. My only

request at this time is to have all correspondences remitted as either Word

or plain text attachments to my e-mail address listed above.


I sincerely hope that this request will help ensure that all blind and

visually impaired persons in the State of Michigan can access the full range

of services, programs, benefits and activities offered by your agency on

equal and effective terms with the non-visually impaired.


If I can be of any assistance in helping your agency comply with both the

letter and spirit of the law please do not hesitate to ask. I truly wish to

get to the bottom line on a cooperative basis.


Finally, I would like to thank Ms. Thiamm for her courteous response to my

inquiries on directory and other information in today's phone call.


Respectfully Submitted,


Paul Joseph Harcz, Jr.


Cc: Michigan Commission for the Blind

Cc: National Federation of the Blind of Michigan and United States

Cc: The American Council of the Blind and the Michigan Council of the Blind

and Visually Impaired

Cc: Michigan ADAPT

Cc: Disability Network

Cc: U.S. Representative Dale Kildee

Cc: U.S. Dept. Of Justice, Civil rights division


Reference Note Number One:


>From Legal Foundations to Accessible Information, American Foundation for the



"…The courts have held that a public entity

violates its obligations under the Americans with Disabilities Act when it

simply responds to individual requests for accommodation on an ad-hoc basis.

A public entity has an affirmative duty to establish a comprehensive policy

in compliance with Title II in advance of any request for auxiliary aids or

services [see Tyler v. City of Manhattan, 857 F.Supp. 800 (D. Kan. 1994)]. A

recognized good practice in establishing such a comprehensive policy is to

consult with the disability community, especially those members most likely

to request accommodations. "


From: Americans with Disability Act Access Guidelines-US. Access Board:


(7) Building Signage. Signs which designate permanent rooms and

spaces shall comply with 4.30.1, 4.30.4, 4.30.5 and 4.30.6. Other

signs which provide direction to, or information about, functional

spaces of the building shall comply with 4.30.1, 4.30.2, 4.30.3,

and 4.30.5. Elements and spaces of accessible facilities which

shall be identified by the International Symbol of Accessibility

and which shall comply with 4.30.7 are:


(a) Parking spaces designated as reserved for individuals with



(b) Accessible passenger loading zones;


(c) Accessible entrances when not all are accessible

(inaccessible entrances shall have directional signage to indicate

the route to the nearest accessible entrance);


(d) Accessible toilet and bathing facilities when not all are



4.30 Signage.


4.30.1* General. Signage required to be accessible by 4.1 shall

comply with the applicable provisions of 4.30.


4.30.2* Character Proportion. Letters and numbers on signs shall

have a width-to-height ratio between 3:5 and 1:1 and a

stroke-width-to-height ratio between 1:5 and 1:10.


4.30.3 Character Height. Characters and numbers on signs shall be

sized according to the viewing distance from which they are to be

read. The minimum height is measured using an upper case X. Lower

case characters are permitted.


Height Above Finished Floor Minimum Character Height

Suspended or Projected Overhead in compliance with 4.4.2

3 in (75 mm) minimum


4.30.4* Raised and Brailed Characters and Pictorial Symbol Signs

(Pictograms). Letters and numerals shall be raised 1/32 in, upper

case, sans serif or simple serif type and shall be accompanied with

Grade 2 Braille. Raised characters shall be at least 5/8 in (16

mm) high, but no higher than 2 in (50 mm). Pictograms shall be

accompanied by the equivalent verbal description placed directly

below the pictogram. The border dimension of the pictogram shall

be 6 in (152 mm) minimum in height.


4.30.5* Finish and Contrast. The characters and background of

signs shall be eggshell, matte, or other non-glare finish.

Characters and symbols shall contrast with their background --

either light characters on a dark background or dark characters on

a light background.


4.30.6 Mounting Location and Height. Where permanent

identification is provided for rooms and spaces, signs shall be

installed on the wall adjacent to the latch side of the door.

Where there is no wall space to the latch side of the door,

including at double leaf doors, signs shall be placed on the

nearest adjacent wall. Mounting height shall be 60 in (1525 mm)

above the finish floor to the centerline of the sign. Mounting

location for such signage shall be so that a person may approach

within 3 in (76 mm) of signage without encountering protruding

objects or standing within the swing of a door.


4.30.7* Symbols of Accessibility.


(1) Facilities and elements required to be identified as

accessible by 4.1 shall use the international symbol of

accessibility. The symbol shall be displayed as shown in Fig.

43(a) and (b).


(2) Volume Control Telephones. Telephones required to have a

volume control by 4.1.3(17)(b) shall be identified by a sign

containing a depiction of a telephone handset with radiating sound



(3) Text Telephones. Text telephones required by 4.1.3(17)(c)

shall be identified by the international TDD symbol (Fig 43(c)).

In addition, if a facility has a public text telephone, directional

signage indicating the location of the nearest text telephone shall

be placed adjacent to all banks of telephones which do not contain

a text telephone. Such directional signage shall include the

international TDD symbol. If a facility has no banks of

telephones, the directional signage shall be provided at the

entrance (e.g., in a building directory).


(4) Assistive Listening Systems. In assembly areas where

permanently installed assistive listening systems are required by

4.1.3(19)(b) the availability of such systems shall be identified

with signage that includes the international symbol of access for

hearing loss (Fig 43(d)).


4.30.8* Illumination Levels. (Reserved).


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:02 am


 Show Message Info

disablegrapevine at ...


Offline Offline

Send Email Send Email




< Prev Message  |  Next Message >


Table with 3 columns and 3 rows

Expand Messages


Sort by Date

Request for ADA, Title II Self Evaluation


The Disability Grapevine Online Newspaper: Issue # 5 -Wednesday Year 3 http://www.disabilitygrapevine.com ****The Number One Daily Newspaper for People


disablegrapevine at ...



Send Email

Apr 10, 2002

4:05 am

table end

< Prev Topic  |

Next Topic >


Message #








Meet Sexy Black People - Free Sign Up www.blackpeoplemeet.com - Find the man or woman of your dreams tonight at BlackPeopleMeet.com.

Questions About low back pain www.Bing.com - Search Bing x2122; for Fast, Complete Responses to Any low back pain Question.

Silk Ascot Ties Only $16.99 www.boxed-gifts.com - Quality Silk Ascot and Cravat FREE shipping w/$75 & Cool gift box.


Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.

Privacy Policy -

Terms of Service -

Copyright Policy -

Guidelines -

nfbmi-talk mailing list
nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbmi-talk:

More information about the NFBMI-Talk mailing list