[nfbmi-talk] Uber Ridesharing now in Lansing, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Flint

Sat Jul 26 12:06:24 UTC 2014

Hi Fred and All,

This service has claimed to many that it will take drivers off if they don't 
pick up guide dog handlers.

However several guide dog owners and groups cannot confirm a case in which 
they did this.

The problem is because they are so unregulated that there can't be any 
confirmation of anything.

Now the leadership of uber and lift have again affirmed the rights of dog 
users.

But none have again the system in place to document complaints or anything 
like an ADA coordinator to process them.

Again I am not opposed at all to this new business model but it isn't 
accountable the way it is set up currently.

Thus I do think that not only are resolutions in order, but also other 
actions including legislation to guarantee that these services are fully 
accessable and compliant with all civil rights laws including, of course the 
rights of the blind.

Again I see great promise and value in these systems and am not knocking 
them conceptually.

Nor am I knocking J.J. for his posts on these issues. I am only bringing up 
along with you and Larry some very real issues facing guide dog users 
nationally.

Joe

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Wurtzel via nfbmi-talk" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
To: "'J.J. Meddaugh'" <jj at bestmidi.com>; "'NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing 
List'" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Uber Ridesharing now in Lansing, Grand 
Rapids,Kalamazoo, Flint

> Hello,
>
> I agree.  However, Uber seems to be ducking the issue by claiming they 
> can't
> enforce these laws because the drivers are not employyees.  I really like
> the service, but I want them to serve everyone.
>
> I did Tweet Mayors Triplett and Bernaro about this.
>
> BREAKING NEWS!!!
>
> I just received a Tweet from Uber Michigan.  They say that any driver
> refusing to transport a service animal will lose access to the platform.
> Sounds very positive.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Fred
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbmi-talk [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J.J.
> Meddaugh via nfbmi-talk
> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:51 PM
> To: joe harcz Comcast; NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Uber Ridesharing now in Lansing, Grand Rapids,
> Kalamazoo, Flint
>
> The law is clearly on our side here. Rideshare services are a public 
> service
> so the same accomodations need to be provided. If a driver refuses a
> passenger because of a guide dog, that driver should be reported and we
> should make sure the company follows up and takes care of the situation.
>
> Best regards,
> J.J.
>
> On 7/25/2014 6:47 PM, joe harcz Comcast via nfbmi-talk wrote:
>> The problem is systemic and prevelent William and Fred. It is called
>> discrimination in violation of existing laws, including the Americans
>> with disabilities act. Now I have no problem with these new services
>> per se. and, indeed they may make a differance as many suggest in new
>> opportunities for PWD including the blind. However, as they currently
>> exist they are in an unregulated market and compete with those in the
>> regulated market of which includes, nominally compliance withthe ADA.
>>
>> In brief the basics of the ADA and other civil rights laws says, "Thou
>> shalt not discriminate against people with disabilities solely because
>> of said disabilities." In the guide dog context it is also quite
>> simple. The law, not always followed or enforced, for sure says, "Thou
>> shalt pick up and otherwise not discriminate against a guide dog
>> handler."
>>
>> We all know of cases where this is violated amonst cab companies. We
>> do. But at least they are remedied or can be under state and federal
>> laws like the ADA.
>>
>> The issue with these other systems is that they are untried,
>> unregulated and compete in an untested environment that is unequal and
>> untested.
>>
>> In other words it is the "wild west" so far as civil rights is
>> considerrred.
>>
>> And by the way there is no reason or no regulation that one of these
>> sorts cannot pick up or deny service to a white cane traveler as well
>> as a guide dog user.
>>
>> Our fundamental civil rights and choice of appropriate to our needs
>> mobility devices and other considerations are all at issue here.
>>
>> The synergy between those of us who choose to use the long, or short
>> white cane, for that matter or any devices or means including guide
>> dogse are intertwined. In other words it isn't a matter of either/or
>> but rather, both.
>>
>> And the rights of one being violated ultimately devolve in to
>> violations of the rights of all.
>>
>> So this is a very important issue for anyone and everyone amongst us
>> who consider the rights of those whom are blind.
>>
>> I for one will stand behind any blind cane user whether or not NFB,
>> ACB or any affiliation and his/her right to use this device without
>> prejudice just as much as I'll stand behind the rights of guide gog
>> users for same.
>>
>> Again I personally don't care about the affiliation or lack thereof in
>> these circumstances for it is not a political party sort of thing in
>> my mind anymore than right is right and wrong is wrong when it comes
>> to Democrats and Republicans or visa versa if all catch my drift here.
>>
>> Again as athe great civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr. and
>> others have said, "An injury to oneamonst us is an injury to all of us."
>>
>> These principles of social and civil justice are in the bones of NFB
>> for sure and go back to our founder Jacobus Tenbroek who said and
>> wrote that, "We have the right to live in the world."
>>
>> And colleagues we have those rights in law and equity if not in fact
>> on a daily basis if we chose, with all informed consent, to get from
>> here to over there, as they all say, using a dog, a flashlight, or a
>> white cane or even hypnosis or some other silly stuff.
>>
>> I'm not digressing here in my fervor, but rather, re-iterating
>> concerns by Fred and William and I affirm they are valid.
>>
>> I chose not to have a dog for a variety of reasons not worthy of this
>> list for now.
>>
>> But I'll fight to the death literally for the right of those to chose
>> their form of mobility and more importantly for the rights of all to
>> exercise their forms of mobility.
>>
>> Imagine if you will for one rambling last second here something:
>>
>> Imaganine that a cab company or uber or lift for that matter passes a
>> knwn person who is sighted and denies him/her service just because
>> he/she is sighted....Imagine that! Imagine...
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Vandervest via nfbmi-talk"
>> <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "Fred Wurtzel" <f.wurtzel at att.net>; "NFB of Michigan Internet
>> Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:08 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Uber Ridesharing now in Lansing, Grand
>> Rapids,Kalamazoo, Flint
>>
>>
>>> that problem has been discussed extencively on some of theguide dog
>>> lists, and i think we do need a resolution on this matter
>>>
>>>
>>> There are none so blind as those who will not see
>>>
>>> William and Leader Dog Lynard
>>>
>>> timelord09 at att.net
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wurtzel via nfbmi-talk"
>>> <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> To: "'J.J. Meddaugh'" <jj at bestmidi.com>; "'NFB of Michigan Internet
>>> Mailing List'" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 8:16 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Uber Ridesharing now in Lansing, Grand
>>> Rapids,Kalamazoo, Flint
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi J,
>>>>
>>>> I, also, like the service.  However, I am told by Larry of our
>>>> guidedog division that drivers in Ann Arbor routinely won't allow
>>>> guidedogs in their cars.  Do you have any information about this.
>>>> Is this something we need a resolution about at our state
>>>> convention?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the update.
>>>>
>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Fred
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbmi-talk [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> J.J.
>>>> Meddaugh via nfbmi-talk
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 12:40 AM
>>>> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
>>>> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] Uber Ridesharing now in Lansing, Grand Rapids,
>>>> Kalamazoo, Flint
>>>>
>>>> I've talked about Uber, the cool and simple ridesharing service
>>>> before, and now it's in Lansing, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Flint
>>>> in addition to Detroit and Ann Arbor.
>>>> For me, Uber is easier than cabs because you know when your vehicle
>>>> is on route and when it is arriving, payment is handled from the app
>>>> itself, and it's just simpler than taxis. You can get 5 free rides
>>>> for the next two weeks in the new Michigan cities by using the code
>>>> michfree.
>>>> First, use the link below to sign up and get another free ride. THis
>>>> will give me a free ride as well.
>>>>         http://uber.com/invite/6k56q
>>>>
>>>> Then use the michfree code to unlock 5 more free rides for the next
>>>> two weeks.
>>>> I hardly ever use cabs now where Uber is available, and this really
>>>> helps me to be more indpendent in lots of areas. More transportation
>>>> options is always better.
>>>>
>>>> You need an iPhone, Android, or WIndows Phone to use Uber currently.
>>>> I'm happy to help anyone out in getting Uber set up if you need it.
>>>> Just
>>>> send me an Email.
>>>> Enjoy.
>>>> --
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> J.J.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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