[Nfbmo] I-Phone could take the win out of KNFB Reader.

Debbie Wunder debbiewunder at centurytel.net
Tue Jun 29 19:00:38 UTC 2010 

Hello Fred, it would be a wonderful world if products for the blind were 
more affordable, but in truth we are not the main stream of folks. It is my 
understanding that to date the cost that has gone into the reader for its 
invention, improvements and marketing t, has not yet made a profit. In fact 
I would like to draw your attention to the fact that there have been several 
updates, with no charge to the blind consumer.

You published a Resource book for the blind and visually impaired, I do not 
dsee you giving it away to the impoverished blind. In fact Fred it seems 
that I heard you say that you did not want your book to be placed on Book 
Share because  the profit   is how you earn your living.

The NFB has a wonderful3% technology loan program, one that loans too many 
blind people who could not other wise borrow such an amount of money. I will 
not pretend that the reader does not have a  high price, but, nor will I 
allow  you to make it seem as if there is wrong doing on the part of KNFB 
Reading System, or the NFB.  Certainly you are able to say what ever you 
think, but it will not go with out a reply back.





----- Original Message ----- 
From: <DanFlasar at aol.com>
To: <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] I-Phone could take the win out of KNFB Reader.


> This does not take into account the costs of the development of the
> hardware/software that made the reader
> possible.  Remember the first KNFB reader?  A palm Pilot combined  with an
> SLR camera?  It was bulky but
> it worked.  Now it's software embedded in a phone.  But it took a  lot of
> time and money to get there and
> that money has to be recouped - like any product.  There was  nothing
> comparable to it.
>    I'm sure the Apple application will be cool, but will  the producers of
> the app provide support for it?  Upgrades and fixes?   There are further
> plans for the NFB Reader that may be more blind-friendly  than those of
> the i-Phone apps.  Given that there are a lot of people around the  world
> working on text-to-speech and OCR
> applications, some within the open source world, there is a lot of
> cross-fertilization going on -  including
> people who have looked at the work Kurzweil has done with the K1000
> software and Arkenstone and starting
> from there.   Also, as with any new application, there are a lot  of 
> quirks
> and issues that need to be worked
> out with the product use.   Can the new app handle all fonts and  manage
> graphics and the structure of the
> page?  That's a problem even K1000 and Arkenstone have issues  with.
>    At PowerUP, I learned that a lot of single-use adaptive  devices can be
> easily adapted for use in an
> i_phone or for that matter, and i-Pod Touch, that cost degrees of 
> magnitude
> less than the stand-alone device.   Interestingly, the agencies that  fund
> these devices for schools and personal use won't buy an
> iPod or iPhone, opting instead for the more costly single-use offering,
> because the iPhone, like computers
> in it's first appearance, could be used for games and  entertainment.
>     In essence, we are seeing the web offering a more  dynamic, less
> gradual business plan than the trad-
> itional one of agencies paying for adaptive technology.  It's  happening
> all across the business spectrum and
> who knows where it will go?  There is no need to ascribe negative  motives
> to those who developed a tech-
> nology under an older business plan.
>   And by the way, there is no reason why this application can't  be used
> with an iPod - why would you
> need to connect to a phone data plan when the iPod Touch has wireless
> capability?  There already is a great
> text-to-speech application for the Touch that I hear works great.  In
> essence, the applications discussed
> here are stand-alone and have no need of being in a cellphone  network.
> Cool stuff!
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/29/2010 12:22:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> goodfolks at charter.net writes:
>
> You're  certainly right, Shelia, remember when the KNFB Reader came out
> with
> a  price-tag of $3,300 or more. And then they reduced the price to $2,800
> and
> now I believe the price is down to around $1,500. En lite of the fact that
> I
> heard an engineer at Kurzweil headquarters in 1988 say that the company
> could sell it's current product, the Kurzweil Personal Reader for $2,500
> which at the time the low-end unit with hand scanner was selling for
> $7,000
> and the top-of-the-line model for $12,00.00 and still make a  profit, and
> since many blind folks consider the prices for Jaws and Window  Eyes
> prohibitive the fact that the KNFB reader/phone sells for $1,500 plus
> makes
> this Apple application infinitely more affordable and the fact that  the
> KNFB
> Reader/phone is priced nearly four times the price of the Apple  I-Phone.
> And
> let's not use the argument that the KNFB Reader is not used  in a
> main-stream
> product, because it is. The problem for me is that it  appears that an
> organization of and for the blind has the appearance of  making money off
> the
> blind when they give every appearance of acting in  the best interests of
> the
> blind.
>
> Fred Olver
> ----- Original  Message ----- 
> From: "Shelia Wright" <sbwright95 at att.net>
> To:  "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday,  June 29, 2010 11:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] I-Phone could take the win out  of KNFB Reader.
>
>
>>I am all for options and for affordability. If  the Apple's OCR program is
>> comparable or even better than the KNFB  Reader that is great. However,
> the
>> fact that the NFB and  Kurzweill  has developed the technology through
> many
>> years of  work, has in and of itself led to making it possible.
>>
>> The tone  of the posts that the KNFB Reader is a rip off is a bit niave
> and
>>  annoying given the years of work I have witnessed. Bravo for the work
>>  Apple
>> is doing; Bravo that technology is advancing and becoming more
> affordable;
>> Bravo to the pioneers who led the way!
>>
>>  Shelia Wright
>>
>>
>>
>>     --Original  Message-----
>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org  [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
>> Of Bryan Schulz
>>  Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:25 AM
>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing  List
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] I-Phone could take the win out of KNFB  Reader.
>>
>> hi,
>>
>> any chance these phones have an  option for not having to pay 30-60 bucks
> a
>> month?
>>
>>  Bryan Schulz
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Fred  Olver" <goodfolks at charter.net>
>> To:  <Blindad at babel-fish.us>; <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc:  <msb-alumni at googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 7:17  AM
>> Subject: [Nfbmo] I-Phone could take the win out of KNFB  Reader.
>>
>>
>>> the I phone will have an OCR  app  soon.  thus no need to pay two grand
>>> for
>>
>>>  the kurzweil reader , phone , and talks or moble speak.   the 3 g as
> well
>>> as the new 4g phone will work with  this OCR software.  and the I phone
>>> has
>>
>>> it's own speech software  which is FREE. So  go and listen to the file
>>> below and see  for yourself.
>>>
>>> SayText is an app designed especially  for the visually impaired and by
>>> the
>>
>>> way,  it's free! In a few words to describe it's use, you need to place
>>>  the
>>
>>> iPhone on the center of a document. There's a big  button for starting
> the
>>> tool, tap it. ?Slowly elevate the i Phohne  upwards from the document
>>> until
>>
>>> you hear a  beep sound - this indicates, that the document is now fully
> in
>>>  frame and the camera will shoot automatically, when the picture is
> stable
>>> / focused. ?Now only thing you have to do, is to wait for a  few 
>>> seconds.
>>> (You can tap the screen to hear the OCR progress,  e.g. OCR 35%). ?When
>>> the
>>
>>> OCR is ready you can  start the voiceover to read the document out loud.
>>> The app should  come to Appstore in a week or so. There is a website for
>>>  SayText:
>>>  http://www.docscannerapp.com/saytext/
>>>
>>> There's also a  video, where Mr. Heikki Ekola, a totally blind person
> uses
>>> it.  He's representing the Finnish Federation of the Visually 
>>> mpaired  -
>>> You can find the video here:
>>>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlWJF27IdX4
>>>
>>> This video  is also at the SayText homepage.
>>>  http://www.docscannerapp.com/saytext/
>>>
>>>
>>> Fred  Olver
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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