[Nfbmo] What would you do?
DanFlasar at aol.com
DanFlasar at aol.com
Thu Oct 27 00:27:28 UTC 2011
There are always a few fringey people in every group. Generally, it's not
good to elect, appoint or anoint them, much less generalize from their
poor behavior to the rest of the group.
And anyone who would pray for you to get your sight back and call you
evil if you don't needs to pray to lift the arrogance from their soul.
Dan
In a message dated 10/26/2011 5:51:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
mdsmith25 at ktis.net writes:
I've run across a few people who believe that if I just pray enough my
blindness will be cured, but none that thought my blindness was caused
because I was evil.
Melissa Smith
On 10/26/2011 5:02 PM, Gail Bryant wrote:
> Personally, I go to a wonderful church which has supported me in every
way
> possible. When I've had surgery, the helped me with meals and whatever I
> needed. When Ed died, they prayed with me, cried with me, laughed with
me
> and more. Never have they called me evil. I don't know where Mr.
Bradley
> gets his figures, but perhaps the reason he chooses not to go to church
is
> out of anger and bitterness
>
> Gail Bryant
> Columbia Braille Teaching Services L.L.C.
> 1212 London Drive
> Columbia, MO 65203-2012
> Phone: (573)817-5993
> Cell: (573)268-4962
> gbryant at socket.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
> Of Debbie Wunder
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:05 PM
> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
> You are being ridiculous! Where do you get your facts?
> This trivia night issue has nothing to do with god, or opinions of the
> blind.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dewey Bradley"<dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
>
>> I wasn't going to reply to this, but I have to say this
>> its been my experience that churches and church groups do this, they do
>> not want anyone with a disability around, they just want to tell us that
>> if we pray harder we will have are sight back, and that we are evil,
that
>> is why we are blind.
>> They say that 95% of us don't go to church, I don't know if the numbers
>> are that high, but this is why.
>> Most people that go to church and call them selves Christians are
>> judgmental like that.
>> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am I trying to get a lintch mob
>> after me, I'm just saying that is what I've noticed, that is why I never
>> go, every church I have seen do not want blind people around.
>> I'm not saying that is the case here, but it could be
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "MATTHEW SIEVERT"<msievert at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>
>>
>> Group,
>>
>> I hope you are all well.
>>
>> What I have observed is that many times people will want to "rebel"
>> instead of
>> remedy a situation through other means.
>>
>> Equality for all will not take place over a period of one year or even
ten
>> years, but you can lay the foundation that other's can build upon.
>>
>> Representing a group in a negative light will not win over supporters.
It
>> will
>> bring attention to the issue, but you want people understand, not simply
>> notice
>> through a negative act.
>>
>> Some day we will have a blind/visually impaired astronaut. Until that
time
>> we as
>> the NFB should do what we can to build upon our organization's
>> achievements and
>> represent our disabled community in a positive light.
>>
>>
>> Equality at trivia night's should be obtained, but like all challenges,
it
>> will
>> take time and a calm intellect.
>>
>> Matt Sievert
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: fred olver<goodfolks at charter.net>
>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wed, October 26, 2011 7:41:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>
>> Gary,
>>
>> I have read your comments several times and perhapse even lost some
sleep
>> over what I consider to be an afrontery to me and others who might wish
to
>> participate in an activity alongside individuals who are not limited in
>> their vision.
>>
>> Let me say first of all that a year ago I confronted this situation and
>> explained to the individuals in charge that I felt wronged because half
of
>> the questions were undeciferable by myself. Okay, they didn't know I was
>> going to be there. This year, however nearly a third of the questions
were
>> again undeciferable by a blind person. It is my feeling that if the
folks
>> in
>> charge know that individuals will be participating who are unable to
>> participate in a significant number of questions related to the activity
>> that they not allow those questions. To me, the reasons ought to be very
>> obvious. If you alienate a significant number of individuals you won't
get
>> them to come back next year. If you knowingly allow questions to be a
part
>> of an activity which you know will exclude individuals from
participating
>> then you are wrong to include them. If for example I only provide
agenda's
>> in Braille to individuals who don't read Braille then I am wrong to do
so,
>> because I have ignored their needs.
>>
>> Bottom line, I'm feeling ignored. Next year, I think I'll find seven
other
>> individuals who can not make use of visual questions and attend the same
>> fundraiser and practice a bit of civil disobedience.
>>
>>
>> Fred Olver
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gary Wunder"<GWunder at earthlink.net>
>> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:53 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>
>>
>>> Hi Fred and the folks who have commented here. Please allow me to
>>> interject
>>> another perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. When I
can
>>> have access and am denied it because someone doesn't want to go to the
>>> trouble of making their software accessible, I'm up in arms. When they
>>> use
>>> artificial barriers such as possessing a driver's license when what
they
>>> mean is that an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. When they
say I
>>> have to be able to visually read print to take a job and I have a
machine
>>> to
>>> do it, I'm outraged.
>>>
>>> How is the issue changed when we know of no way to make a process 100
>>> percent accessible? I don't want to deprive anyone of the beauty found
in
>>> paintings or photography simply because I can't observe them. I
>>> understand
>>> there are some cartoons that are so torturous to explain that by the
time
>>> one finishes putting them into words, they are no longer funny.
>>>
>>> Mental challenges may be audible, visual, or they might even involve
>>> other
>>> senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard enough, we'll find
people
>>> who
>>> have problems with one or more of these. So, in the areas where we
don't
>>> have true alternatives, should our request be that the thing we cannot
do
>>> be
>>> stricken from the activity? Would we have been wrong to run a clip of
>>> Henry
>>> Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand," and asking the group to identify
the
>>> man or what he was talking about or the year when he made the
utterance?
>>> The
>>> blind are at something of a disadvantage because we cannot see him. The
>>> deaf
>>> are at a disadvantage because they cannot hear him. The young may well
be
>>> at
>>> a disadvantage because they weren't around when he made headlines with
>>> that
>>> statement, much to the displeasure of his boss, the president of the
>>> United
>>> States. Take the same question, put it in print, and then decide if it
is
>>> fair to the dyslexic who might have an easy time with the audio or the
>>> video
>>> clip.
>>>
>>> I Don't like being excluded, and if I am excluded enough, I'll find
>>> another
>>> activity. It hurts and seems unfair, but to me it doesn't rise to the
>>> level
>>> of discrimination which, if I understand it, means something which is
>>> both
>>> unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be critical of
people
>>> using sight and acknowledging that it plays a major role in the way
they
>>> find and even remember things. What we can and should make an
unequivocal
>>> stand for are things which have nonvisual alternatives but which are
>>> ignored
>>> to the detriment of our education and employment.
>>>
>>> I do not mean this as a real answer to the question of what should I
do,
>>> but
>>> as a thought process we go through when trying to decide when to fight
>>> and
>>> what we can reasonably fight for as blind people. I am not targeting
Fred
>>> here but trying to engage in some discussion of a philosophical
principle
>>> that I wrestle with at least two or three times per month. I
appreciate
>>> the
>>> question, even if I don't have anything like a good answer.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of fred olver
>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45 AM
>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>> Subject: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>
>>> A year ago, I attended a Trivia Night put on by a food pantry in the
St.
>>> Louis area. This pantry is supported by my church along with several
>>> others.
>>> After the night's program was over, half of the categories being visual
>>> in
>>> nature so that a blind person could not participate in that portion of
>>> the
>>> program I wrote an item for my churches news-letter and sent it on to
the
>>> director of the organization. In this item I pointed out that it was
not
>>> fair or necessary to include only video-type questions and asked that
>>> they
>>> do, in the future consider having categories which were non-video in
the
>>> future. I received assurances from the director of the organization
that
>>> indeed they would do this.
>>>
>>> Last Friday, I attended their Trivia Nighht again. True, only two
>>> categories
>>> of questions were video in nature, however these two categories
included
>>> roughly 1/3 of the questions. Yesterday at a meeting of a church
>>> committee
>>> I
>>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth of donations and that
these
>>> donations go to another organization as a protest, the rest of the
>>> committee
>>> said no to this idea, sighting the possibility that a family might have
>>> to
>>> do without this food, I personally doubt it, and figure they're just to
>>> comfortable in their place and don't wish to because it doesn't affect
>>> them,
>>> so what would you do if you were in my place? This really upsets me,
>>> especially since I had spoken to this organization a year ago and they
>>> had
>>> more or less agreed that this was not a good thing to have happen.
>>>
>>> Fred Olver
>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of us it's a way of life
>>> and
>>> for some of us it just makes life easier. Fred Olver
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Nfbmo:
>>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/gwunder%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Nfbmo:
>>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/goodfolks%40charter.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfbmo mailing list
>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfbmo:
>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/msievert%40sbcglobal.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfbmo mailing list
>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfbmo:
>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradley%40kc.rr.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfbmo mailing list
>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Nfbmo:
>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/debbiewunder%40centurytel
> .net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbmo mailing list
> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Nfbmo:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/gbryant%40socket.net
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.1834 / Virus Database: 2092/4575 - Release Date: 10/26/11
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbmo mailing list
> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Nfbmo:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/mdsmith25%40ktis.net
>
_______________________________________________
Nfbmo mailing list
Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Nfbmo:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/danflasar%40aol.com
More information about the NFBMO
mailing list